islamist attack police station

fatdog said:
would that happen here.
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Unless their was an armed officer or unit in a particular station, no. He'd probably get tasered very quick though. They don't even bother shooting back at dissidents who bomb and shoot at police stations here. Though they do it from outside and the police stations are fortified. So it's basically ****ing into the wind.
 
These nut jobs all seem to follow the same religion. Is it something about it that attracts nutters or is it something about it that turns them in to nutters?
 
Dis86 said:
These nut jobs all seem to follow the same religion. Is it something about it that attracts nutters or is it something about it that turns them in to nutters?
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No.

Nutjobs are nutjobs and would continue to be extreme nutjobs whatever their religion as evidenced countless times in history.

It just so happenhs that the current limelight falls on these nutjobs.
 
didn't think it would be long before the usual:

'this has nothing to do with Islam'/'religion of peace'/'they're mentally ill'
 
Dis86 said:
These nut jobs all seem to follow the same religion. Is it something about it that attracts nutters or is it something about it that turns them in to nutters?
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If you genuinely belive in this brand of Islam you'd have to be insane not to kill infidels.

God your highest source of truth and justice has told you that they're all evil and deserve and need to die. So that removes any negative moral issues for you (no different to a state executioner or a prison guard carrying out the court a pointed sentence here).

You also belive of you die while doing this you will live forever in eternal happiness in paradise.


Now if you really did belive that then tell me how could you rationaly do anything but fight.
 
So what we're saying now is they're not nuts, just driven by the violent demands of their beliefs?
 
Dis86 said:
These nut jobs all seem to follow the same religion. Is it something about it that attracts nutters or is it something about it that turns them in to nutters?
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bit of both

plenty of terrorists are quite sane, highly educated, intelligent individuals... their rather messed up fundamentalist ideology can be used to rationalise what would otherwise be extreme acts... some apologists try to deny or ignore this but Islamic Fundamentalism as an ideology is playing a big part here, just as Naziism and the portrayal of jewish people as sub humans allowed Germans to do some pretty messed up things - they weren't necessarily mentally ill or likely to do nutty things regardless - the messed up ideology played a big role
 
Dis86 said:
So what we're saying now is they're not nuts, just driven by the violent demands of their beliefs?
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Key word being "their beliefs" yes.

Let's consider this, their belief is in fact wrong, they've been following an interpretation and especially one that doesn't apply to the modern age. In particular when referring to "killing the infidels", since the quran says no such thing.

I was actually reading about this ages ago when a similar topic came up and decided I wanted to come to my own conclusion about what these people are following vs what is actually written and in what context.

This is what I found:

Why does the Quran say that infidels should be killed?

The verse of the Holy Quran is often mentioned to malign Islam. The verse does not say infidels it says idolaters. (9:5) And when the forbidden months have passed, kill the idolaters wherever you find them and take them prisoners, and beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they repent and observe Prayer and pay the Zakat, then leave their way free.
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Which is explained as:
This verse, chapter 9 verse 5, is often used as evidence that Islam allows killing of non-Muslims, but what is not recognized is the context and history behind these verses. The history of this verse is that when Prophet Muhammadsa began preaching the unity of God he was persecuted for 13 years, much as Prophets Abraham and Jesus were. Since Muslims who are being persecuted are encouraged to leave for safer areas, rather than create disorder, Muhammadsa and his followers migrated to Medina. After they left, the Meccans attacked them in Medina on and off for a period of nine years until Chapter 9 was revealed.

Looking at the context of the verses, it becomes obvious that the commandment of this verse only relates to those tribes who continued hostilities against the Muslims even after they had migrated. In particular, reference is made to 5 tribes (‘Banu Khuza’ah, Banu Mudlij, Banu Bakr, Banu Damrah, and Banu Sulaiim) that did not honor the treaties they made with Muslims. It is also important to remember that the preceding verses give these people respite for 4 months to reconsider their behavior and cease hostilities. Sadly after 4 months passed, the enemies of Islam continued their hostilities against the Muslims. Only then was Prophet Muhammadsa commanded by God to meet them in battle to defend Muslims and the religion of Islam.

Even in this situation the Quran states that if the enemies repent of their behavior and promise to fulfill their treaties, it becomes incumbent on Muslims to cease military action and forgive them. Unfortunately those who take this specific verse out of context fail to see that as the title Al-Taubah suggests, the main subject matter of the chapter is forgiveness and repentance.
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You will find many sources confirming the same thing in their own words.

So what does this mean? it means that Islam is actually telling Muslims to fight against all kinds of terrorism, oppression, tyranny etc. Not to kill innocent people but to fight against those who are killing innocent people whether those people are Christian, Jewish or whatever else.

So the question then is in fact why aren't moderate Muslims who are following Islam properly fighting against those who are committing acts of terrorism in the name of Islam? I think it's because people generally are too afraid to stand up for what is right and would rather sit back and watch someone else do the hard work for them or support the cause through a computer screen.

Taking the easy route is a natural human trait and we are all guilty of it for many things I guess, it does mean many normal Muslims out there are not actually following their religion properly because they are not fighting those who are committing crimes against innocent people and in that context blame can be awarded all round :/

Edit*
TL;DR version: People are generally retarded.
 
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Religion is a bit retarded in general tbh...

There can be plenty of drawn out arguments about interpretation... some of the moderate ones about why violent passages shouldn't be used to justify violence today can get a bit convoluted too. The whole thing is just pointless - the fundamentalists are no more or less retarded than the others - they're all just basing some belief system/morality around some deity & book written hundreds of years ago.
 
dowie said:
Religion is a bit retarded in general tbh...

There can be plenty of drawn out arguments about interpretation... some of the moderate ones about why violent passages shouldn't be used to justify violence today can get a bit convoluted too. The whole thing is just pointless - the fundamentalists are no more or less retarded than the others - they're all just basing some belief system/morality around some deity & book written hundreds of years ago.
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what about dumping religion but keeping spirituality ?


or is that going to deep for this thread
 
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