rack pdu surge protector
- Thread starter scotsdragon
- Start date
Are you evading the question because you don't know? Are your ramblings applicable with UK power?
Can this be any easier? If you do not need the 'whole house' solution for about £1 per protected appliance, then why spend £55 on a power strip that can make electronics damage easier? Why is this so hard?
Because I'm skim reading your elongated responses and you aren't making the answer obvious......
I can appreciate that. An answer without intending to be insulting. It would explain why so many others also do not get it. Many do not want to know why. They only want to be told what to do.
Well, a pertinent question was asked.
If you do not need the 'whole house' solution for about £1 per protected appliance, then why spend £55 on a power strip that can make electronics damage easier?
Turn around, this thread is not worth it
First, do not confuse safety ground (in wall receptacles) with earth ground. Even if interconnected, they remain electrically different. A tester plugged into a wall socket might detect a defective safety ground. But can never detect the earth ground. We confuse UK citizens by calling a safety ground an earth ground.
Second, repeatedly noted was low impedance. To be earthed means that connetion cannot have sharp bends, more than 3 meters, or splices. It cannot be inside metallic conduit. It must connect low impedance. It must be separated from other non-grounding wires.
Third, only one of many incoming AC wires is earthed. If any other is not, then all protection is compromised. We cannot earth all incoming wires directly. So we do a next best thing. We make a connection to earth via a protector. A 'whole house' protector.
Effective protectors do what a hardwire would do better. Hundreds of thousands of joules means every incoming wire must connect low impedance to single point earth ground. A protector in a rack is mostly wasted money. Every facility that needs protection locates this proven solution where wires enter a building. So that even a direct lightning strike does not enter a building. Using a soluton that costs tens of times less money.
Does not matter whether receptacles are two pin or three pin. Does not matter if wiring is 1910 or 2015 vintage. Effective protectors for all facilities connect low impedance (ie 'less than 3 meters') to earth ground electrodes.
That has never changed even though so many consumers are virtually brainwashed by advertising for obscenely profitable (ie £55) and ineffective protectors. Those claim protection from surges that are only noise; that typically do no damage. Those are obviously wasted money due to no dedicated and short connection to the earthing electrode - the earth ground.
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So if I'm reading this correctly.....
Every socket in the house should have a low impedance single point earth ground that should be within 3 meters?
Single point meaning all sockets must earth off this single point? Or single point meaning each socket should have 1 and not 2 earths in total?
I don't see how each socket can have a decent earth within 3 metres following standard internal wiring though? 3m is nothing on modern Gr, 1st and 2nd floor homes. If you are saying that they "should" have this solution then surely that would indicate you have some major mass conspiracy theory of home builders and relevant companies conspiring to wring people of money for surge protectors?
Every socket in the house should have a low impedance single point earth ground that should be within 3 meters?
Single point meaning all sockets must earth off this single point? Or single point meaning each socket should have 1 and not 2 earths in total?
I don't see how each socket can have a decent earth within 3 metres following standard internal wiring though? 3m is nothing on modern Gr, 1st and 2nd floor homes. If you are saying that they "should" have this solution then surely that would indicate you have some major mass conspiracy theory of home builders and relevant companies conspiring to wring people of money for surge protectors?
Please read with greater care. As stated so many times, earth ground does not exist in sockets. The phrase 'low impedance' makes that obvious. Obviously no socket makes a less than 3 meter connection to earth. Repeatedly stated - a protector connected to sockets does not do and does not claim protection from destructive surges. Obviously a £55 strip has no earth ground; does not provide effective protection. A typical UPS features even less protection.
Low impedance also means a wire without sharp bends. AC wires to sockets have numerous sharp bends. Just another reason why impedance is excessive -not an earth ground connection.
Sockets have a *safety* ground. Effective protectors connect low impedance (ie no sharp bends) to *earth* ground.
Proven solutions for all UK homes were defined repeatedly. A 'whole house' protector for any UK home is available from Keison, ABB, and Siemens. One specification applies. A minimally sized protector for any home or commercial building is 50,000 amps.
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Low impedance has absolutely nothing to do with sharp bends. Impedance, the resistance to flowing current with an applied voltage, should not be affected by what you are saying. This is limited purely by the cable type and terminations made in the circuit.
It really sounds like he is just spamming this thread excessively without providing any specific solution.
Get your surge protector that will provide a disconnect between your electronic items and the live feed in the event of a excessive flow of power. The specific case that these become overloaded and cause fire/catastrophic failure in the remainder of your property/goods is almost unheard of.
It really sounds like he is just spamming this thread excessively without providing any specific solution.
Get your surge protector that will provide a disconnect between your electronic items and the live feed in the event of a excessive flow of power. The specific case that these become overloaded and cause fire/catastrophic failure in the remainder of your property/goods is almost unheard of.
Appreciate what you do not know about electricity. For example, connect a 200 watt transmitter to a long wire antenna. Touch one part of that antenna and feel no voltage. Touch another part of that same wire and be shocked by maybe more than 100 volts. How can two completely different voltages appear on the same wire? Electricity does not work as many only assume. Resistance (ie due to wire thickness) is completely different from impedance (more detemined by wire length, sharp bends, inside conduit, splices, and other factors).
From from Erico's "Selecting & Installing Service Entrance SPDs"
Or from Bill Whitlock's July 1999 article entitled "SURGE PROTECTION:the enemy within":
Or MTL's Earthing guide for surge protection, page 7:
Why so much voltage on such short wire? Impedance. Not resisitance - impedance. Not learning basic electrical concepts (ie impedance) explains spending tens of times more money (ie £55) on adjacent protectors that may be undersized and that do not claim to protect from destructive surges.
Meanwhile you have again assumed protection is by disconnecting. Show me the so many millisecond disconnecting devices that can block a microsecond surge? Show me the millimeter gap that can block what three kilometers of sky cannot? Unfortuntately, most know only from their assumption - do not first learn facts with numbers. Protection is not provided by disconnecting.
A simple rule. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. That explains superior 'whole house' protectors from Keison, Siemens, and ABB.
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75,000 Amps for £22
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=UP-048-BE&groupid=702&catid=55
or
35000 Amps for as little as £5
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=UP-001-BE&groupid=702&catid=55
Not sure why you keep harping on about £55 - as above £5, multiple device ones up to about £20.
<1 Nanosecond on that £5 Belkin
I am 99% sure you are actually just some kind of sales bot and we are all being trolled, but since the mods haven't locked this yet (despite me reporting it), keep spouting your drivel.
I trust Belkin (with their £175k connected equipment warranty on that £22 surge protector) and other manufacturers far more than I trust you and your textbook nonsense
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This problem was so common that UL1449 was created. The problem remains.
Norma on 27 Dec 2008 in "The Power Outage" also describes danger of power strip protectors:
http://www.pennsburgfireco.com/news/index/layoutfile/home/layout/yes/page/36 on 15 Jan 2008
From a Fire Marshal in North Carolina describes why so many protector fires are incorrectly blamed on overloading - which is prevented by its circuit breaker or fuse:
28 September 2007 in Boston according to the local TV news station:
From melbourne architect in Australia on 20 Apr 2011 entitled "Safety Switches / Surge Protection":
picarho on 26 Sept 2012 in "semi-disaster. Ever happened to you??":
Kx250rider on 29 May 2012 describes a near fire created by his APC power strip only months earlier:
http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-democrat/index.ssf/2013/10/house_fire_was_caused_by_fault.html
""House fire caused by faulty surge protector not on recall list, Kingwood chief says" on 28 Oct 2013
But these fires do not happen? Numbers already posted say why it happens. Undersizing get the naive to recommend those protectors. But also increases a fire threat as seen by so many fire departments.
From the Kimberton Fire Department entitled Surge Protectors:
http://www.kimbertonfire.org/content/safety/SurgeProtectors.cfm
Fire is just another reason why plug-in protectors need protection provided by a properly earthed 'whole house' solution.
Let's just step back a moment.
My point is the scientific definition of impedance is as I stated.*
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance
The metal of the wire and the connections it makes determine the impedance you would measure. If you have interfaces along the circuit or what have you then this will also affect the impedance.
The phase shift and polarisation from impedance measurements are what provide you the information in an impedance measurement. Any offset, which is the commonly used simple component of impedance measurements provides an idea of the resistance that the item of the circuit is expected to experience. This however is an incredibly oversimplified explanation of how impedance should be used. I doubt most sparky's have access to £5K+ potentiostats for carrying out impedance measurements on their work.
Resistance**
**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistance_and_conductance
These are not to be mixed up, although initially may sound similar.
Any excess current should be drained via the earth that all UK plugs have. Even in your own examples they state the failure of the earth connection as the source of the problem. This is why the UK earth pin is longer than the other two pins. You really have to make a mistake to get that wrong.
Devices should provide either double insulation protection or be entirely earthed. I don't think the op expects the device to protect from a direct lightening strike to his computer so should really not be comparing these kinds of power levels.
You have highlighted a number of small examples where electrical items have been found to be sources of ignition. This is a series of failed products, not an inherent failure of all surge protector electrical designs. I have owned more power adapters than examples you have provided, yet non of them has ever failed.
Op, get whatever you want to make you feel better about your electrical items. Your mains circuit break should protect them, however some people like additional fuses along the way.
Why do I feel the need to feed trolls, I have no idea.
My point is the scientific definition of impedance is as I stated.*
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance
The metal of the wire and the connections it makes determine the impedance you would measure. If you have interfaces along the circuit or what have you then this will also affect the impedance.
The phase shift and polarisation from impedance measurements are what provide you the information in an impedance measurement. Any offset, which is the commonly used simple component of impedance measurements provides an idea of the resistance that the item of the circuit is expected to experience. This however is an incredibly oversimplified explanation of how impedance should be used. I doubt most sparky's have access to £5K+ potentiostats for carrying out impedance measurements on their work.
Resistance**
**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_resistance_and_conductance
These are not to be mixed up, although initially may sound similar.
Any excess current should be drained via the earth that all UK plugs have. Even in your own examples they state the failure of the earth connection as the source of the problem. This is why the UK earth pin is longer than the other two pins. You really have to make a mistake to get that wrong.
Devices should provide either double insulation protection or be entirely earthed. I don't think the op expects the device to protect from a direct lightening strike to his computer so should really not be comparing these kinds of power levels.
You have highlighted a number of small examples where electrical items have been found to be sources of ignition. This is a series of failed products, not an inherent failure of all surge protector electrical designs. I have owned more power adapters than examples you have provided, yet non of them has ever failed.
Op, get whatever you want to make you feel better about your electrical items. Your mains circuit break should protect them, however some people like additional fuses along the way.
Why do I feel the need to feed trolls, I have no idea.