New Rape Laws

[Tefal]

Men are stronger, more aggressive and more likely to be mentally instable than women (psychopatic males outnumber psychopathic females 4 to 1). What do you expect?

which has little to no bearing on most criminal activity.

The new guidance seems perfectly reasonable to me, men shouldn't lay a finger on women unless they clearly consent the act.

and when they consent but then the next day decide they didn't?

 

[Tom_ed1987]

The only option is to covertly video every one night stand, just in case she 'decides' she has regrets.

Don't tell 'em mind.

 

[Xordium]

For a crude way of putting it if you can get it up you're deemed to have consented. I have yet to experience an issue there regardless of how intoxicated I am.

Unfortunately such a stance has been shown time and time again to be physiologically inaccurate. Moreover, in cases of male on male rape it is not an indication of consent and yet if a woman is the instigator of assault (and not rape strangely enough) it would be accepted as.

This is why I say rape will only truly get the justice when men get equal treatment to women. All over the world the rape of men gets little attention. And yet in most of the worlds big conflicts in recent history we have documented evidence of its prevalence. We also have documented evidence of international bodies refusing funding to charities who have attempted to address it.

We need to apply the law to all with equal outcome. Rape and sexual assault are abhorrent crimes used throughout history to suppress and violate women, men and children. It is a vehicle of threat and subjugation. It therefore must be removed for all humans - not just the ones societies are willing to champion whilst other violations go unrecorded, unsupported and uncared about.

 

[D.P.]

but they're not a rapist :/

maybe your a rapist D.P? or a peado, or a child murder best smash your **** up on the off chance eh?


after all if you are you deserve much worse.

I was specifically talking about rapists walking free because it is hard to convict.

You are going on about innocent people being accused, which is an entirely different thing!

 

[Tefal]

I was specifically talking about rapists walking free because it is hard to convict.

You are going on about innocent people being accused, which is an entirely different thing!

no they are the exact same thing.

these people arnt convicted they are just accused , yet you think its fine for them to be punished by vigilantes on the off chance they may be a rapist.

its sick.

 

[Xordium]

Men are stronger, more aggressive and more likely to be mentally instable than women (psychopatic males outnumber psychopathic females 4 to 1). What do you expect?

Across a population men are stronger and more aggressive than women is a viewpoint supported by a body of evidence. To then assume that an individual of that population - an individual man - is necessarily stronger and more aggressive is the very essence of discriminatory thought and prejudice ie transferring attributes associated with a population onto an individual of that population. People should be judged on a individual basis not on the basis of any group they may belong to.

 

[Tefal]

Across a population men are stronger and more aggressive than women is a viewpoint supported by a body of evidence. To then assume that an individual of that population - an individual man - is necessarily stronger and more aggressive is the very essence of discriminatory thought and prejudice ie transferring attributes associated with a population onto an individual of that population. People should be judged on a individual basis not on the basis of any group they may belong to.

whats hilarious is given his posting history if you'd have said that exact sentence he did but with black and white instead of man and woman hed be screaming racism.

hes quite fond of screaming sexism too, but apparently its ok for him to be a sexist pig...

 

[semi-pro waster]

so presumably the guy just goes well she was saying; "that's it **** me harder, harder, yes give it to me"

consent proved?

If that was how the conversation went then that would be a good indication of consent. It would then be down to whether the gentlemans story was believable or not, I doubt it's purely going to be decided on one persons word but rather it will be weighed up after looking at a variety of evidence.

 

[XeNoN89]

This law is going to do nothing to stop disgusting real rapists but will likely result in many more innocent men being convicted. Great.

 

[Xordium]

whats hilarious is given his posting history if you'd have said that exact sentence he did but with black and white instead of man and woman hed be screaming racism.

hes quite fond of screaming sexism too, but apparently its ok for him to be a sexist pig...

I am not sure of his posting history but I do know psychopathy is not a medical diagnosis and therefore am somewhat sceptical about the later of his claims and therefore the quality of the argument as a whole above the obvious discriminatory stance.

 

[doofer]

If the Courts have decided women cannot be legally responsible when drunk, when are all the women who have ever been prosecuted for alcohol related incidents going to be pardoned and offered compensation?

 

[D.P.]

no they are the exact same thing.

these people arnt convicted they are just accused , yet you think its fine for them to be punished by vigilantes on the off chance they may be a rapist.

its sick.

Just because you are not convicted doesn't make you innocent
If i murder someone and never get convicted for it that doesn't make m innocent, that just means a murder walked away free of conviction.

People guilty of rape rarely get prosecuted for a variety of reasons such as lack of witnesses, inability to use DNA evidence, no CCTV footage or the simple fact that 75-95% of rape cases are not even reported to the police:http://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmic/media/without-consent-20061231.pdf




Innocent people that are accused of rape and not convicted but end up in the papers is a separate issue. I agree it is a problem but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

 

[Dis86]

Just because you are not convicted doesn't make you innocent
If i murder someone and never get convicted for it that doesn't make m innocent, that just means a murder walked away free of conviction.

People guilty of rape rarely get prosecuted for a variety of reasons such as lack of witnesses, inability to use DNA evidence, no CCTV footage or the simple fact that 75-95% of rape cases are not even reported to the police:http://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmic/media/without-consent-20061231.pdf




Innocent people that are accused of rape and not convicted but end up in the papers is a separate issue. I agree it is a problem but that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

How do you tell the two apart?

 

[D.P.]

If that was how the conversation went then that would be a good indication of consent. It would then be down to whether the gentlemans story was believable or not, I doubt it's purely going to be decided on one persons word but rather it will be weighed up after looking at a variety of evidence.

And because the evidence is hard to come by typically no prosecution will happen in many cases.

 

[D.P.]

How do you tell the two apart?

That is the difficulty but irrelevant to what I said.

It is pretty simple:
1) It is a fact that people guiltily of rape do not get prosecuted.
2) Tefal said that some of these people might get bad publicity in the press, or their name circulated in the community.
3) I said that guilty rapists deserve much worse
4) Tefal goes completely off topic about innocent people accused of rape and suffering the same consequences as noted in point 2).

I don't disagree that innocent people unfairly suffer consequences of false accusations, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about, which is guilty people not being prosecuted.

 

[Dis86]

That is the difficulty but irrelevant to what I said.

It is pretty simple:
1) It is a fact that people guiltily of rape do not get prosecuted.
2) Tefal said that some of these people might get bad publicity in the press, or their name circulated in the community.
3) I said that guilty rapists deserve much worse
4) Tefal goes completely off topic about innocent people accused of rape and suffering the same consequences as noted in point 2).

I don't disagree that innocent people unfairly suffer consequences of false accusations, but that has absolutely nothing to do with what I was talking about, which is guilty people not being prosecuted.

Yes but both end up with the same outcome. Names tinged with association of rape whether they did it or not. The trouble is some morons automatically assume if you've been accused of it, you've done it.

 

[Haggisman]

That is the difficulty but irrelevant to what I said.

Actually it is entirely relevant. I doubt anyone in this thread disagrees that actual rapists who walk free deserve punishment, but as you've admitted, telling the difference between a rapist who got off, and an innocent man falsely accused is basically impossible except for the 2 people involved, so how can anyone feel justified in punishing them?

 

[D.P.]

Yes but both end up with the same outcome. Names tinged with association of rape whether they did it or not. The trouble is some morons automatically assume if you've been accused of it, you've done it.

I dont disagree.
My point was a very simple one, guilty rapists deserve worse than having their name in a paper.

I haven't said anything about innocent false accused people. That is an entirely different debate.

 

[D.P.]

Actually it is entirely relevant. I doubt anyone in this thread disagrees that actual rapists who walk free deserve punishment, but as you've admitted, telling the difference between a rapist who got off, and an innocent man falsely accused is basically impossible except for the 2 people involved, so how can anyone feel justified in punishing them?

I don't know, you tell me? I've said nothing about innocent people false accused. So it is entirely irrelevant to my point that guilty rapists deserve worse than a public naming.

 

[Zethor]

which has little to no bearing on most criminal activity.

On criminal activity in general:

Psychopathy affects 20% to 30% of the prison population in the US.
Half of the prisoners in the US were convinced for violent crimes.

http://news.uchicago.edu/article/20...are-not-neurally-equipped-have-concern-others
http://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=pbdetail&iid=1118

On sexual aggression:

Perpetrators of sexual aggression consistently report higher scores on measures of psychopathy and acceptance of rape myths relative to nonperpetrators.

Rape myth acceptance was positively correlated with psychopathy, and perpetrators scored higher on both constructs. Myths transferring responsibility to victims were related to Factor 1 psychopathy (i.e., callous and manipulative traits).

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10926771.2013.743937#.VMqLi9LkfDU

Little to no bearing you say?

and when they consent but then the next day decide they didn't?

You convince the investigator/judge you are innocent.

Across a population men are stronger and more aggressive than women is a viewpoint supported by a body of evidence. To then assume that an individual of that population - an individual man - is necessarily stronger and more aggressive is the very essence of discriminatory thought and prejudice ie transferring attributes associated with a population onto an individual of that population. People should be judged on a individual basis not on the basis of any group they may belong to.

Regarding my reply to Tefal's post, I said it's not surprising that men and women are treated differently, considering that most criminals, particularly violent ones, are men.

Besides, we're not talking about an individual here, we're talking about populations - namely, that men and women engage in different types of criminal activity and for different reasons. These differences mean that the rehabilitation methods should be different as well.

In general, the Biosocial Study confirmed past proposals suggesting that biological factors have relatively more impact among females, and environmental factors have relatively more impact among males.

For males, the number of adult offenses is most strongly influenced by
four factors: (1) mother's low and father's high educational levels; (2) lead
intoxication; (3) amount of time the father was unemployed; and (4) the
number of household moves.

For females, the number of adult offenses is most strongly influenced by five
factors: (1) father's low educational level; (2) lower number of neurological
abnormalities; (3) lack of foster parents; (4) number of abnormal movements;
and (5) abnormal vision.

http://ir.lawnet.fordham.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1122&context=faculty_scholarship

For the rehabilitation of females the focus should be on biological factors (healthcare), for males it should be on environmental factors (social protection).