HSBC scandal.

Efour · 10 Feb 2015 at 13:14

V F said:
Shaming? Really? When did that ever happen…

ok sorry it happened in the Swedish press. Not read UK news today, but yeah its probably not frowned upon back there

(more a sign of amazing success)

semi-pro waster · 10 Feb 2015 at 13:20

Neil79 said:
We pay enough TAX as it is, good for HSBC!

I'm going to point out the obvious here - the tax take is used to pay for public services and if people aren't paying it because they're evading tax then the shortfall needs to be made up somehow. The shortfall can be dealt with by borrowing more (short term and just shifts the problem to later, assuming that borrowing is even an option) or by increasing the tax on the remaining population of tax-payers (that would include you and me). Are you really sure that you want to cheer people evading tax?

To be clear - avoiding tax by minimising your tax burden is legal (although aggressive tax avoidance is arguably morally suspect), evading tax by hiding income streams or funds is not.

anything I don't mind · 10 Feb 2015 at 13:27

No amount of tax is ever going to solve the government debt+ spending addiction.

Zbornak · 10 Feb 2015 at 13:55

Dj_Jestar said:
Just to point out, this new "scandal" is about HSBC helping people evade paying tax, which is illegal. Not avoid paying tax, like any accountant would do.

They have been advising clients on ways to do offshore banking such that they can keep their income secret from HMRC, which is illegal. You must declare your income and pay the tax due. This isn't some profit-strike-out plot or the like. This is straight up laundering.

It's not quite money laundering.

Dj_Jestar · 10 Feb 2015 at 14:15

Zbornak said:
It's not quite money laundering.

It is if those hiding it wish to spend it.

Von Smallhausen · 10 Feb 2015 at 14:17

VoG said:
Not in the slightest, amoral behaviour from the banks is nothing new.

Sadly true.

Westyfield2 · 10 Feb 2015 at 14:43

semi-pro waster said:
The shortfall can be dealt with by borrowing more (short term and just shifts the problem to later, assuming that borrowing is even an option) or by increasing the tax on the remaining population of tax-payers (that would include you and me), or by spending less

There is another option

.

DR_Pingu said:
After seeing them launder billions for the mexican cartel, this really doesn't surprise me. Like.. at all.

Interesting that they were the only ones to not need a bailout. Coincidence?

Tunney · 10 Feb 2015 at 14:53

Efour said:
Hopefully naming and shaming these people will allow all governments tax offices to recoup a bit of lost revenue.

These people have committed a criminal offence. They need prosecuting, not shaming.

V F · 10 Feb 2015 at 15:17

Tunney said:
These people have committed a criminal offence. They need prosecuting, not shaming.

As if that is going to happen.

Danthus · 10 Feb 2015 at 15:54

Tunney said:
These people have committed a criminal offence. They need prosecuting, not shaming.

Even if recovering the money is faster and cheaper in the long run?

Diddums · 10 Feb 2015 at 15:56

If it prevents it from happening again, then prosecute the hell out of them.

It's all well and good recovering the money and leaving it at that, but these people need to understand that they're breaking the law.

Xordium · 10 Feb 2015 at 16:09

Tunney said:
The rest have been asked to repay the tax that they've evaded. Can you imagine a common thief being completely let off if they returned the goods that they'd stolen?

They haven't been asked to pay back all the tax isn't it 10% and the guarantee of no prosecution.

I am quite sure the local crook would like that deal ...

MrMoonX · 10 Feb 2015 at 16:19

Xordium said:
They haven't been asked to pay back all the tax isn't it 10% and the guarantee of no prosecution.

I am quite sure the local crook would like that deal ...

Go steal something from a shop, when caught say you will pay back 10% what it's worth for a no prosecution deal, watch the police laugh at you!

The rich people guilty of this get let off, cos no doubt they have fingers in political pies!

Tunney · 10 Feb 2015 at 16:21

OldCoals said:
Even if recovering the money is faster and cheaper in the long run?

Of course, they've committed a serious criminal offence.

If criminals know that they can get away with tax evasion, where's the incentive to not do it again?

Iraklis F.C. · 10 Feb 2015 at 16:21

banks involved in fraud scandals shocker

Westyfield2 · 10 Feb 2015 at 16:27

Tunney said:
These people have committed a criminal offence. They need prosecuting, not shaming.

Is it the customers or the bank that should prosecuted?

If I get a taxi, and it turns out that the taxi driver wasn't declaring all of his fares, is it me or him that has committed a criminal offence?
If in a years time it turns out that the builder who did my driveway wasn't paying VAT, is it me or him that has committed a criminal offence?

The Geezer · 10 Feb 2015 at 16:31

Westyfield2 said:
Is it the customers or the bank that should prosecuted?

If I get a taxi, and it turns out that the taxi driver wasn't declaring all of his fares, is it me or him that has committed a criminal offence?
If in a years time it turns out that the builder who did my driveway wasn't paying VAT, is it me or him that has committed a criminal offence?

If you read up on this scandal both the bank and customer are committing criminal acts.

There are notes with each account which shows the actions of both the banker and customer which clearly stated the money is undeclared.

Dj_Jestar · 10 Feb 2015 at 16:37

Yes, it is both the clients and the bank(s). The clients are seeking to hide their money from HMRC, and the bank are advising on how to do so.

Uther · 10 Feb 2015 at 17:01

Tax avoidance should have the same stigma as benefit fraud.

Tunney · 10 Feb 2015 at 17:09

Westyfield2 said:
Is it the customers or the bank that should prosecuted?

If I get a taxi, and it turns out that the taxi driver wasn't declaring all of his fares, is it me or him that has committed a criminal offence?
If in a years time it turns out that the builder who did my driveway wasn't paying VAT, is it me or him that has committed a criminal offence?

The allegations against HSBC are that they knowingly helped customers evade tax. Both HSBC and the customers have committed a criminal offence. HSBC were complicit in the tax evasion.