Security guard injured in Texas Muhammed cartoon conference

If you use facebook heres a link to something called the #Ericshephard challenge which is basically retards jumping on the "old glory" flag of the USA. It certainly causes a bit of an uproar.

No its not the same thing as trying to shoot anyone but its a weak and poor analogy to how easy it is to upset people over nothing.

Again id speculate that woman in the video could quite easily end up getting shot for her actions.

Oh it contains swearing NSFW etc Mods please remove if its not allowed sorry.
 
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The problem here is simple.

Is it the right for the offender to have free speech, or, the right of the defender?

In my opinion they're both equally valid. What isn't even a 'right' is killing people over the fact you're offended - that's psychopathic and represents a separation from the most basic form of human-to-human behaviour, akin to the Nazis and the Jews.

You cannot start talking to people if they cannot form the basic part of humanity.
 
NickK said:
The problem here is simple.

Is it the right for the offender to have free speech, or, the right of the defender?

In my opinion they're both equally valid. What isn't even a 'right' is killing people over the fact you're offended - that's psychopathic and represents a separation from the most basic form of human-to-human behaviour, akin to the Nazis and the Jews.

You cannot start talking to people if they cannot form the basic part of humanity.
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Of course you are correct and I completely agree with what you say, but I would also say that common decency dictates that if you know what you are going to do is purposely going to upset someone, why bother doing it?
 
Bear said:
Of course you are correct and I completely agree with what you say, but I would also say that common decency dictates that if you know what you are going to do is purposely going to upset someone, why bother doing it?
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True - all down to if something offends.

If something offends - should you allow it to be made a illegal act?

For every act of offending - there is are counter arguments:
* what happens if every similar act is made illegal - so if anyone draws any religious figure, regardless of religion.
* what is the right to question the subject of the offending as valid - i.e. for every religion there are people that see that religion as null and void and can do what ever they want.

If people think they have the right to shoot people - they should expect everyone to have the right to draw stupid cartoons about what people hold most dear to them.

If people run around treating people as infidels without any respect - they should expect the infidels to not even respect their beliefs.

If people want the one thing - they need to have earnt the path, step by step.
 
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NickK said:
True - all down to if something offends.

If something offends - should you allow it to be made a illegal act?

For every act of offending - there is are counter arguments:
* what happens if every similar act is made illegal - so if anyone draws any religious figure, regardless of religion.
* what is the right to question the subject of the offending as valid - i.e. for every religion there are people that see that religion as null and void and can do what ever they want.

If people think they have the right to shoot people - they should expect everyone to have the right to draw stupid cartoons about what people hold most dear to them.

If people want the one thing - they need to have earnt the path, step by step.
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The problem here is that you're trying to reason people out of something they haven't actually reasoned themselves in to.

Whether it's "okay" or that they have the right to do so hasn't factored into their thoughts, they've just acted on impulse under the illusion that they are free to do as they please to protect their beliefs, despite the fact that as Muslims they are supposed to obey the law of the land.

In summary, crazy broken people respond in a crazy broken manner.
 
spoffle said:
The problem here is that you're trying to reason people out of something they haven't actually reasoned themselves in to.

Whether it's "okay" or that they have the right to do so hasn't factored into their thoughts, they've just acted on impulse under the illusion that they are free to do as they please to protect their beliefs, despite the fact that as Muslims they are supposed to obey the law of the land.

In summary, crazy broken people respond in a crazy broken manner.
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The unwritten part of what I was trying to say is just this - act crazy and people are just going to tar everyone in your religion in the same way.

Rage against the Machine have a great tune known as "Killing in the name of" - pretty much sums up the stupidity of religious sanctified murder. Whether it's crusades or jihad.

If the archbishop of canterbury ran around spewing hatred and inciting murder of non-christians then we'd probably have the same understanding - only the pyschonuts that follow blindly would obey, the remainder of the sheep would simply ignore and look for a different preacher/turn a blind eye. Those that are outside of the religion would tar every person with the same brush.

Engage with those that have links back to the nut case preachers, then you empower the terror threat further. Listen and engage with those that start on a mutually respect starting point and you can move forward. However everyone should understand that because they are bound by the religious laws they follow - it doesn't mean the same law should be extended to others or sanctioned by state.

Infact state should stay so far out of religion - it should be a independent ruling body without any recognition of religion or set any law based off religious edict.


Now being an atheist I personally thing that people should have the right to debate or question everything. In the end I don't even bother with any religion - it's not worth the time waisted (and the only time I do is when initiated by a religious someone making stupid comment)..
 
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There some seriously unpleasant cretins in the world. However, no matter how much of an intolerant git someone is, it doesn't excuse violence against them.

Christians are on the receiving end off all sorts of offensive nonsense. Just look at the ****christ installation in Americaq. Hugely offensive and yet nobody got shot.

There is a serious problem within modern Islam. Not that people take offence, but how some (a large number) deal with it.
 
Bear said:
Of course you are correct and I completely agree with what you say, but I would also say that common decency dictates that if you know what you are going to do is purposely going to upset someone, why bother doing it?
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Because people don't have the right to not be offended or upset. While the cartoons at this convention may not have been the height of wit, satire or intelligence they do represent an important freedom - no one would bat an eyelid at a provocative cartoon of any other deity, the rules of any religion should not impact on non members of that religion.

There's only one religion currently that seems to cause self-censorship from people for fear of reprisals, and I believe it's import that this fear and control is challenged.
 
Xordium said:
Indeed appeasement will bring "Peace in Our Time" ...

YL4En6k.jpg
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I used to nail his granddaughter or great granddaughter (can't remember which) and said that to her once. Did NOT go down well.

As for the thread, people can draw cartoons if they want. If some primitive cave monkey wants to take offense and play with guns, then a bullet through the unthinking zombie brain is just the right medicine. I don't see followers of other religions get so wound up over stupid juvenile crap.
 
Mynight said:
I had a Muslim coworker that tried to give me coke as he "couldn't have it during Ramadan". I found it rather amusing.

I have yet to meet a so called radical and I've met a fair few muslims. It's no different to Christianity there's always going to be a few that live to the letter of their own definition of the book. They're the ones the news focus on not the vast majority who follow their own version and don't really care what others make of it.
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I used to play cricket with a Muslim guy that loved pork sausage rolls. I would bring him some every game we played.
 
spoffle said:
It seems that most people just don't understand that freedom of speech isn't freedom of consequence.
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Given there was heavy security surrounding the event I don't think anyone thought that. The problem is why the readiness to resort to extreme violence and why do a lot of Muslims sympathise or agree with violence being an answer in these situations?
 
regulus said:
I used to nail his granddaughter or great granddaughter (can't remember which) and said that to her once. Did NOT go down well.

As for the thread, people can draw cartoons if they want. If some primitive cave monkey wants to take offense and play with guns, then a bullet through the unthinking zombie brain is just the right medicine. I don't see followers of other religions get so wound up over stupid juvenile crap.
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I am glad you noticed that picture I posted. I find it funny after all these pages not one person has called me out on ridiculing that man for his silly notions at that time.

Funny how not one appeaser has challenged me ridiculing an otherwise decent man with his one big failure no matter how well intentioned he was at the time.
 
regulus said:
I used to nail his granddaughter or great granddaughter (can't remember which) and said that to her once. Did NOT go down well.

As for the thread, people can draw cartoons if they want. If some primitive cave monkey wants to take offense and play with guns, then a bullet through the unthinking zombie brain is just the right medicine. I don't see followers of other religions get so wound up over stupid juvenile crap.
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Wow, she is hot...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/8234049.stm

Could you fit your winky through the gap in her teeth?
 
NickK said:
Gun lobby will now be saying that it's the only way to be sure terrorists aren't able to take over the God Given Country of USA..
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Yep I can see concealed carry handgun applications going through the roof, they both had assault rifles, the policeman had a basic pistol, he plugged both of them even though they were wearing body armour. He certainly saved some lives with that handgun.
 
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