Picked up some JBL Control 23 speakers - any good?
- Thread starter Scougar
- Start date
I'm not for a second saying it was expensive, it was actually cheaper than anywhere else I looked, but I would have preferred something more modern for the same money. (something with digital/optical inputs etc).
I was listening to some films and music last night on my headphones with it. Sounds pretty nice. Now I think I need an equalizer though.... lol
(I actually had a look at some old school nagamishta (or something like that.. apparently very high end back in the day), but the guy wanted about $70 for it, and it had a broken button. Also looked at a Denon AVR-1010 which had what I needed, but again, he wanted $75 for that, which was too much for me just screwing around with this stuff.
On the plus side, I now have surplus 5.1 Sony STR K660P that I'm not sure what to do with.
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I'm not for a second saying it was expensive, it was actually cheaper than anywhere else I looked, but I would have preferred something more modern for the same money. (something with digital/optical inputs etc).
I was listening to some films and music last night on my headphones with it. Sounds pretty nice. Now I think I need an equalizer though.... lol
(I actually had a look at some old school nagamishta (or something like that.. apparently very high end back in the day), but the guy wanted about $70 for it, and it had a broken button. Also looked at a Denon AVR-1010 which had what I needed, but again, he wanted $75 for that, which was too much for me just screwing around with this stuff.
On the plus side, I now have surplus 5.1 Sony STR K660P that I'm not sure what to do with.
At the sort of prices you're expecting to pay, Dollar for Dollar a plain stereo receiver will have better sound for music than a used AV receiver of the same value. Old AV receivers such as that Denon Pro-Logic unit will sound brittle and harsh by comparison. To get something that's decent for music you'll need to up your budget. The best things to look for are the last of the pre-HDMI generation of AV super-receivers. Pioneer VSX-AX5i and AX10 sell for very low prices compared to new, but they're still north of $100 even when buying direct from an owner. These things are built like tanks and pretty much represent the state-of-the-art for receivers of the day. They also sound better than more modern HDMI equipped receivers.
From personal experience I can tell you that older Denons, Pioneers, Onkyos and the like from the late 90's were definitely not great for music. I briefly owned a Denon 3801 which was good for movies but awful for music.
And just when I thought I was done for a while...I just picked up a pair of Polk Audio S6 bookshelf speakers lol.
No idea if they are any good though.
Edit: took them into the garage tonight and tried them on the 5.1 setup (alternating 1 main, 1 as sub). One was taking so unscrewed the passive woofer (that surprised me btw!) And it seemed the wires may have be touching the back of the sub, so I moved them out the way. All sounds good now I think. Will try them on my stereo amp tomorrow.
EDIT2: Also, when I took the passive radiators out (subwoofer) they had a date of 1995 on them (The driver had 1994). So they are only 20 years old lol. On a side note... I noticed they had a load of padding/fuzz (man I have forgotten the word!) in there to I assume dampen the noise/echo a bit... as it has a passive radiator.. should that actually be in there, or has someone else added it later?
No idea if they are any good though.
Edit: took them into the garage tonight and tried them on the 5.1 setup (alternating 1 main, 1 as sub). One was taking so unscrewed the passive woofer (that surprised me btw!) And it seemed the wires may have be touching the back of the sub, so I moved them out the way. All sounds good now I think. Will try them on my stereo amp tomorrow.
EDIT2: Also, when I took the passive radiators out (subwoofer) they had a date of 1995 on them (The driver had 1994). So they are only 20 years old lol. On a side note... I noticed they had a load of padding/fuzz (man I have forgotten the word!) in there to I assume dampen the noise/echo a bit... as it has a passive radiator.. should that actually be in there, or has someone else added it later?
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The passive radiators are there to give more bass than you'd traditionally get from a sealed (Infinite Baffle) speaker. The principle is a push-me pull-you/see-saw idea using the backwave pressure from the powered bass driver.
Speakers are pistons pressurise the air in front of them to transmit sound waves to us the listeners. The driver moves forwards and backward in sync with the signal. Moving forwards makes the sound waves we hear. Moving backwards also creates sound waves, but these fire backwards in to the cabinet. The wadding and the internal structure of the cabinet helps to dissipate that energy.
The passive radiator uses some of the energy that would otherwise be wasted to produce a forward firing bass wave. The energy to move the passive radiator comes from the backwards motion of the main driver.
So to answer your question about whether the passive radiator should be there, Yes it should. Removing it will mess up the characteristics of the speaker.
Speakers are pistons pressurise the air in front of them to transmit sound waves to us the listeners. The driver moves forwards and backward in sync with the signal. Moving forwards makes the sound waves we hear. Moving backwards also creates sound waves, but these fire backwards in to the cabinet. The wadding and the internal structure of the cabinet helps to dissipate that energy.
The passive radiator uses some of the energy that would otherwise be wasted to produce a forward firing bass wave. The energy to move the passive radiator comes from the backwards motion of the main driver.
So to answer your question about whether the passive radiator should be there, Yes it should. Removing it will mess up the characteristics of the speaker.
Yup, it'll do fine.
Give the receiver a digital signal (optical or coax) from a CD player, then select "Direct" mode. This should give the best performance. The second option is analogue via the RCA Cinch connections and in Direct mode again; but if you're using crappy/freebie cables then I'd expect this to sound poorer: You'll hear the limitation of the cheap cables.
Give the receiver a digital signal (optical or coax) from a CD player, then select "Direct" mode. This should give the best performance. The second option is analogue via the RCA Cinch connections and in Direct mode again; but if you're using crappy/freebie cables then I'd expect this to sound poorer: You'll hear the limitation of the cheap cables.
I assume he means low quality rather than low cost per se.
Father in law told me his amp blew yesterday, so I gave him the Onkyo and hooked up my Polks to it, it sounds do good
Will see if I can get the Pioneer instead for myself.
Father in law told me his amp blew yesterday, so I gave him the Onkyo and hooked up my Polks to it, it sounds do good
Will see if I can get the Pioneer instead for myself.
Look Spoffle, I know you've got it in for me. It seems to me that the only time you poke your nose in to this forum is to pick holes in every little thing I write, and you also take everything written in my posts literally. Quite honestly, I don't care. But you are making yourself look a bit of a tit. So why not either start posting in other threads and make a more positive general contribution, or just leave this section of the forum well alone if you can't be here with good intentions.
I can guess that you're going to come back with; which will be to try to debate "price vs quality has no correlation", but that's just you being pedantic when the level of cable quality has already been established before the particular bit you decided to seize upon. See bit in bold.
Because I've seen you recommend cables upon the sound qualities that you believe they have on multiple occasions. You have readily admitted that you know you can't prove that cables have special sound properties and that there isn't any proof in support of those claims but you still recommend them.
My point stands that just because a cable is free doesn't mean it'll be bad. Crappy cables, I'll give you that but the implication was that it's crappy because it's a freebie.
I haven't got it in for you at all. You can be extremely obnoxious and confrontational, but you can't seem to cope with it if you get it in return. Hey I can be extremely obnoxious and confrontational too due to being blunt but I at least know that about myself. I don't think you realise yourself.
I don't like to see people waste money on things such as speaker cables that don't do anything special, hence the reason I've pulled you up on a number of occasions about it.
I've actually got a lot of respect for you and your posts and most of what you say outside of speaker cables, and that's why I might seem like I'm being harsh when it comes to you talking about audio properties that you think cables have. I don't pick holes in every little thing you write, you'll note that the vast majority of the time it's about speaker cables.
My point stands that just because a cable is free doesn't mean it'll be bad. Crappy cables, I'll give you that but the implication was that it's crappy because it's a freebie.
I haven't got it in for you at all. You can be extremely obnoxious and confrontational, but you can't seem to cope with it if you get it in return. Hey I can be extremely obnoxious and confrontational too due to being blunt but I at least know that about myself. I don't think you realise yourself.
I don't like to see people waste money on things such as speaker cables that don't do anything special, hence the reason I've pulled you up on a number of occasions about it.
I've actually got a lot of respect for you and your posts and most of what you say outside of speaker cables, and that's why I might seem like I'm being harsh when it comes to you talking about audio properties that you think cables have. I don't pick holes in every little thing you write, you'll note that the vast majority of the time it's about speaker cables.
It's nice to know that you have respect for me and what I write. Thank you. Obviously I'm less pleased about being called "obnoxious and confrontational", I'd prefer to think of my persona as "direct and confident", but we won't get in to that. As for me being unaware in reference to the above, well, see the above lol
WRT "I don't like to see people waste money on things such as speaker cables that don't do anything special", it may surprise you to find that I am of the same opinion. There is a caveat to that though. I think people should be given the opportunity to hear opinion on cables just as much as opinion on gear, then listen to the stuff and make up their own minds.
To that end, I think buyers should spend more time visiting dealers and demoing gear. Hi-Fi including accessories really isn't the sort of thing that should be bought online off the back of someone else's say-so, my own included! Anyone seeking advice on gear selection should use the recommendations simply as a starting point for drawing up a shortlist of likely candidates. For that reason, which is enough on its own but not the entire justification, I find it just as offensive to suggest that all cables sound alike as I do that all equipment sounds alike.
There is no satisfactory and consistent response to why some people hear the benefits of a better source device and others don't; or why one amplifier sounds better or worse than another despite being a similar price and specification, or why one person hears something in a musical genre that another just doesn't "get". Accepting that placebo plays its part, there still more than enough difference in individual human interpretation that leaves a lot of open ground, and I'm simply saying that forum members should have the opportunity to explore for themselves without being railroaded down a particular path.
Coming back to the point you're attempting to argue that freebie cables aren't crappy; there may be the odd occasion that justifies your position, but I'd say that the overwhelming evidence supports my view. Cables that are included in the box (and hence can be considered a freebie) are in general the cheapest and most basic that the manufacturer can get away with. This or something very similar is what the vast majority of buyers will find in the box...
You can argue until the cows come home, but these are not good sounding audio cables. The sonic difference between something like these and a pair of decent coaxial construction audio leads is audible through a £400 AV receiver with decent bookshelf speakers and a proper audio source.
WRT "I don't like to see people waste money on things such as speaker cables that don't do anything special", it may surprise you to find that I am of the same opinion. There is a caveat to that though. I think people should be given the opportunity to hear opinion on cables just as much as opinion on gear, then listen to the stuff and make up their own minds.
To that end, I think buyers should spend more time visiting dealers and demoing gear. Hi-Fi including accessories really isn't the sort of thing that should be bought online off the back of someone else's say-so, my own included! Anyone seeking advice on gear selection should use the recommendations simply as a starting point for drawing up a shortlist of likely candidates. For that reason, which is enough on its own but not the entire justification, I find it just as offensive to suggest that all cables sound alike as I do that all equipment sounds alike.
There is no satisfactory and consistent response to why some people hear the benefits of a better source device and others don't; or why one amplifier sounds better or worse than another despite being a similar price and specification, or why one person hears something in a musical genre that another just doesn't "get". Accepting that placebo plays its part, there still more than enough difference in individual human interpretation that leaves a lot of open ground, and I'm simply saying that forum members should have the opportunity to explore for themselves without being railroaded down a particular path.
Coming back to the point you're attempting to argue that freebie cables aren't crappy; there may be the odd occasion that justifies your position, but I'd say that the overwhelming evidence supports my view. Cables that are included in the box (and hence can be considered a freebie) are in general the cheapest and most basic that the manufacturer can get away with. This or something very similar is what the vast majority of buyers will find in the box...
You can argue until the cows come home, but these are not good sounding audio cables. The sonic difference between something like these and a pair of decent coaxial construction audio leads is audible through a £400 AV receiver with decent bookshelf speakers and a proper audio source.