Windows 10

Scougar · 27 Jun 2015 at 13:42

I much prefer function over form, but there is no reason why the OS can't look nice. I thought it was looking pretty good when I got the preview, then the update happened and it seemed like a backward step graphically and with usability. I don't see the issue with expressing that opinion.

Heck, I tend to modify nearly everything I own, so I don't have an issue there.

Rroff · 27 Jun 2015 at 14:42

Thing is I find both function and form lacking - you could forgive the form if it was likely to be a lot more polished come release but there are few indicators to that and most updates seem to be if anything a step back each time form wise.

Function wise its not just about the fact that there are parts using legacy (style) UIs even within the same UI there is a lack of cohesion within the approach.

I've been playing around trying to make a fairly minimal start menu that has 2 rows of smaller icons at the top for things like settings, etc. then a couple of live tiles for quickly looking at weather, etc. which would be useful then below that a single row at the bottom of medium sized icons for stuff I don't want pinned to the taskbar but use fairly frequently like calculator, etc... aside from the group management as mentioned previously would get you a fail from even college level Visual Basic coursework and looks hideous even when you persist and get some kind of result I then find you can't (officially) even add tiles for desktop programs like notepad (sure there is the app but thats another story)... not to mention live tiles have randomly decided to stop working at all.

So I end up with something that looks both ugly as **** compared to my Windows 7 start menu but also can't implement the functionality (even though that was the idea of it) that would have given it the killer features to improve on what is lacking with my Windows 7 setup.

^^ Not only can I not just drag and drop that shortcut there.... which kind of defeats the point of the whole start menu........ how much nicer would it look if the icons on there looked something like that rather than those hideous tiles :|

EDIT: Kind of funny I think notepad on there has the windows vista notepad icon and it looks far nicer than just about anything else on the OS.

Brenn47 · 27 Jun 2015 at 15:15

razorpakk said:
Correct me if I'm wrong: I can simply buy an OEM w7 pro license (25£ everywhere) and get windows 10 without much hassle, right?

When MS said all Preview members would get the full version, out came the old same Vista laptop and I stuck on preview. Week later MS decided only FULL activated versions of W7 SP1 and W8.1 will get W10 for free, I soon realised I was now stuck on W10 preview for life ... then they announced the preview will expire in October 2015.

Bit of a dilemma ... tried to use Recovery to revert back to Vista, nope, can't do it.

So I bought a DVD & licence off ebay for 23 quid (DELL OEM) ... disk didn't work and they never mentioned it was OEM, so downloaded the retail ISO from a Digitalriver clone repository, created a bootable USB, and installed Windows 7 Pro .. activated online using the key I bought, MS accepted they product key, I'm good to go on the 29th with Windows 10!

If your running XP or Vista, I'd say do it! But DON'T stick the preview on first!!!!

MS have taken their Vista & XP ISOs offline, so I didn't really have a choice, and I didn't want to stick with the preview with it reporting everything back to Microsoft.

hyperseven · 27 Jun 2015 at 15:26

At the end of the day no one is making you use it, but you probably will.

Never used the start menu since win8, just use win+q or just win in 10 and type the app/function I want to access.

Elevon · 27 Jun 2015 at 15:29

Rroff said:
Thing is I find both function and form lacking - you could forgive the form if it was likely to be a lot more polished come release but there are few indicators to that and most updates seem to be if anything a step back each time form wise.

Function wise its not just about the fact that there are parts using legacy (style) UIs even within the same UI there is a lack of cohesion within the approach.

I've been playing around trying to make a fairly minimal start menu that has 2 rows of smaller icons at the top for things like settings, etc. then a couple of live tiles for quickly looking at weather, etc. which would be useful then below that a single row at the bottom of medium sized icons for stuff I don't want pinned to the taskbar but use fairly frequently like calculator, etc... aside from the group management as mentioned previously would get you a fail from even college level Visual Basic coursework and looks hideous even when you persist and get some kind of result I then find you can't (officially) even add tiles for desktop programs like notepad (sure there is the app but thats another story)... not to mention live tiles have randomly decided to stop working at all.

So I end up with something that looks both ugly as **** compared to my Windows 7 start menu but also can't implement the functionality (even though that was the idea of it) that would have given it the killer features to improve on what is lacking with my Windows 7 setup.

I do wish some people would forget about Win7 which has a Start menu that has not changed much since Win95 days and on its way out,also UI look is always subjective,personnally I can't stand Win7 now which looks dated even with crappy Aero,however no Microsoft Windows is ever hard to use or adapt to,lets be honest here.

Win10 I've no issues with and I do wish some people would adapt to changes ,new layout etc rather then bitch and moan like they always do with every new OS that Microsoft brings out,some things don't change sad to say.

End of the day with respect I think some of you are overreacting to the Win10 situation/layout etc,my grand nephew could use Win10 without issues.

I know if I can then most people can if they are willing ,like all things it comes down to that.

Roll on final of Win10 ,looking forward to that.

Glaucus · 27 Jun 2015 at 15:47

Brenn47 said:
When MS said all Preview members would get the full version, out came the old same Vista laptop and I stuck on preview. Week later MS decided only FULL activated versions of W7 SP1 and W8.1 will get W10 for free, I soon realised I was now stuck on W10 preview for life ... then they announced the preview will expire in October 2015.

Bit of a dilemma ... tried to use Recovery to revert back to Vista, nope, can't do it.

So I bought a DVD & licence off ebay for 23 quid (DELL OEM) ... disk didn't work and they never mentioned it was OEM, so downloaded the retail ISO from a Digitalriver clone repository, created a bootable USB, and installed Windows 7 Pro .. activated online using the key I bought, MS accepted they product key, I'm good to go on the 29th with Windows 10!

If your running XP or Vista, I'd say do it! But DON'T stick the preview on first!!!!

MS have taken their Vista & XP ISOs offline, so I didn't really have a choice, and I didn't want to stick with the preview with it reporting everything back to Microsoft.

Should have stayed on win10 preview and stayed licensed forever.

Skeeter · 27 Jun 2015 at 15:52

Brenn47 said:
When MS said all Preview members would get the full version, out came the old same Vista laptop and I stuck on preview. Week later MS decided only FULL activated versions of W7 SP1 and W8.1 will get W10 for free, I soon realised I was now stuck on W10 preview for life ... then they announced the preview will expire in October 2015.

Bit of a dilemma ... tried to use Recovery to revert back to Vista, nope, can't do it.

So I bought a DVD & licence off ebay for 23 quid (DELL OEM) ... disk didn't work and they never mentioned it was OEM, so downloaded the retail ISO from a Digitalriver clone repository, created a bootable USB, and installed Windows 7 Pro .. activated online using the key I bought, MS accepted they product key, I'm good to go on the 29th with Windows 10!

If your running XP or Vista, I'd say do it! But DON'T stick the preview on first!!!!

MS have taken their Vista & XP ISOs offline, so I didn't really have a choice, and I didn't want to stick with the preview with it reporting everything back to Microsoft.

The Preview doesn't expire in October. Each individual build will expire, but if you stay up to date then the Preview program will continue well into the future. With the way Microsoft are going to progress Windows after 10 the Insider program is a key part of their strategy.

So if you stay in the Insider Program you can run Windows 10 Pro for completely free for well... forever. In summary, you wasted your money.

Skeeter · 27 Jun 2015 at 15:56

Lol Rroff. Says its not just form, its function too that lacks, then has another rant about form :rolleyes:

We get it, you don't like the way that it looks, but are so rich you won't bother taking it while its free, and will buy it later once you have got bored of complaining about the way it looks

Brenn47 · 27 Jun 2015 at 15:59

Skeeter said:
So if you stay in the Insider Program you can run Windows 10 Pro for completely free for well... forever. In summary, you wasted your money.

It depends on how much you value your privacy, the tech preview sends a whole lot of data back to MS .... paying £23 for a privacy & stability is money well spent.

Rroff · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:15

Elevon said:
I do wish some people would forget about Win7 which has a Start menu that has not changed much since Win95 days and on its way out,also UI look is always subjective,personnally I can't stand Win7 now which looks dated even with crappy Aero,however no Microsoft Windows is ever hard to use or adapt to,lets be honest here.

Win10 I've no issues with and I do wish some people would adapt to changes ,new layout etc rather then bitch and moan like they always do with every new OS that Microsoft brings out,some things don't change sad to say.

End of the day with respect I think some of you are overreacting to the Win10 situation/layout etc,my grand nephew could use Win10 without issues.

I know if I can then most people can if they are willing ,like all things it comes down to that.

Roll on final of Win10 ,looking forward to that.

It might be old but the start menu isn't broken - its design didn't just evolve that way by accident either... and progress for progress sake is just retarded. I fully understand that the start menu isn't for every one and neither is the Windows 7 aesthetics - I fully embrace an OS update that includes functionality that allows people to customise the OS to look and behave in a manner that is as close as possible to optimal for them and I fully understand that for some people the start menu doesn't work for them at all but equally there are a lot of people where the alternatives don't work for them either.

(i.e. in that example I can just click start, click calculator and away I go - no need to have a clutter of utilities pinned to the taskbar (which has my main programs), no need to start typing for it in search or have a big screen pop up over everything I'm doing, etc.)

Just because a newer OS isn't "hard to use or adapt to" doesn't mean that it is a superior or even comparable experience to a previous one - if you look at my screenshot I'm trying (and failing due to the short-sightedness and plain bad work of the developers) to create a start menu that would have been a superior and compelling alternative to what is available in Windows 7 that would be even more optimal than what I have with Windows 7. I fully get that MS is trying to embrace the app ecosystem but its position within the OS doesn't even provide a comparable experience to traditional workflow let alone a superior and compelling one.

Skeeter said:
Lol Rroff. Says its not just form, its function too that lacks, then has another rant about form

My post covers both functionality and form (I kind of hoped the red cross over the icon would clue people into that) - as above I get that they are trying to move towards the app ecosystem but it goes beyond the broken functionality with integrating desktop programs into the start system but also there are many other parts of the OS which would be useful to integrate into it i.e. shortcuts to system settings which either you simply can't or are completely random in how they work with it. The image also illustrates a number of functionality issues with the start menu though they might not be so easy to pickup on without having played around with it such as the inability to hide the blank titles or proper group management.

Skeeter · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:15

Brenn47 said:
It depends on how much you value your privacy, the tech preview sends a whole lot of data back to MS .... paying £23 for a privacy & stability is money well spent.

Don't forget illegal and non transferable too

Skeeter · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:21

Yeah Rroff, maybe your right. Wouldn't it be great if, rather than just shipping the software and then walking away, they instead had some sort of Preview program where you can run the OS for free and make requests for enhancements and changes, while also helping them test. You might find loads of people have the same ideas and your suggestions get implemented in future updates

If only that was the case ey :rolleyes:

. But ah well, perhaps you should just moan constantly instead, I'm sure that will get things changed...

Rroff · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:26

Skeeter said:
Yeah Rroff, maybe your right. Wouldn't it be great if, rather than just shipping the software and then walking away, they instead had some sort of Preview program where you can run the OS for free and make requests for enhancements and changes, while also helping them test. You might find loads of people have the same ideas and your suggestions get implemented in future updates

If only that was the case ey . But ah well, perhaps you should just moan constantly instead, I'm sure that will get things changed...

I've tried - there seems to be little interest in anything other than the direction they are taking. (There is a whole thread just on how shortcuts integrate into the start system).

Skeeter · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:29

Rroff said:
I've tried - there seems to be little interest in anything other than the direction they are taking. (There is a whole thread just on how shortcuts integrate into the start screen).

Well that's understandable at the moment as they are working towards releasing it. Once it's out focus will shift to improvements and enhamcements.

Just look at how different Android is now to only a few years ago. If you think Windows 10 wont change and evolve over the coming months/years you've not really grasped how this new format of Windows OSs work.

Rroff · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:42

I get that but you also need to inspire people to want to move to the new OS on release - browse through the feedback there are a lot of people who aren't happy with the most fundamental implementation of many aspects of the OS (and haven't been for a long time and still little has been done about some of the more pertinent complaints outside of bug fixes to existing functionality) before you even get to more opinionated/moaning stuff (unless your view is every criticism of the OS is whinging....).

gareth170 · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:46

Rroff said:
I've tried - there seems to be little interest in anything other than the direction they are taking. (There is a whole thread just on how shortcuts integrate into the start system).

MS idea is to release windows 10 not as a complete OS, it'll be a ongoing project, windows 10 will continue to change..

im guessing MS just want to get it released. then they'll work on issues people having..

there will be missing features, have bugs / issues, etc on the rtm version but MS will regularly release updates / feature updates.

Skeeter · 27 Jun 2015 at 16:49

Rroff said:
I get that but you also need to inspire people to want to move to the new OS on release

They have, by making it free.

You will find that almost everyone complaining they dont like the OS will soon park their criticism and grab the OS for free.

As I've said before, Windows 10 will be the fastest adopted PC OS ever, and have the largest share of the market by an OS ever, I guarantee it.

Quartz · 27 Jun 2015 at 17:03

For those of us with ineligible earlier licenses, is there any indication of pricing?

Rroff · 27 Jun 2015 at 17:04

Would be fascinating to sit down a load of people who'd never used an OS before with a choice of my old modified Zune theme XP install or Windows 10 and see which one the most people were using at the end of the day.

Skeeter · 27 Jun 2015 at 17:12

Quartz said:
For those of us with ineligible earlier licenses, is there any indication of pricing?

Same as 8.1, so $109 for Home and $199 for Pro. Or you can run the Insider Preview for free.

Rroff said:
Would be fascinating to sit down a load of people who'd never used an OS before with a choice of my old modified Zune theme XP install or Windows 10 and see which one the most people were using at the end of the day.

God I loved that Zune theme!