Windows 10

Rroff said:
That is an interesting turn of phrase - that kind of start menu system existed long before Windows 95 let alone ME and didn't turn up in Windows 95 by chance either.
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Goes to show how long Microsoft have used it,end of the day a change was due sooner or later ,especially when they wanted an OS that does it all,so you could argue it was only a matter of time.

I could also state it will change (Start menu) again down the road on Microsoft OS but then that would be nothing new would it?
 
Rroff said:
What killed ME as much as anything was the underlying performance and stability issues on some systems even with 64MB RAM it could take almost 10 minutes from pressing the power button until you were at a fully loaded desktop and even then it would be quite laggy with a lot of disc IO.
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Only two things I look for in a new Windows OS are stability and general compatibilty,so far for a very long time I've not been disappointed by Microsoft in those two areas,rest I can deal with ie changes,layout,features missing/added etc..
 
Elevon said:
Goes to show how long Microsoft have used it,end of the day a change was due sooner or later
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I don't see how that is a bad thing (which you seem to be implying) - sure I can understand that it isn't for everyone and I'm quite happy for an OS to embrace a range of GUI options but its like saying "we've used cups for a long time isn't it time we started drinking out of something else".
 
Rroff said:
I don't see how that is a bad thing (which you seem to be implying) - sure I can understand that it isn't for everyone and I'm quite happy for an OS to embrace a range of GUI options but its like saying "we've used cups for a long time isn't it time we started drinking out of something else".
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I meant that they had used it for such a long time it was only a matter of time(pardon the pun) that it would change again especially for a hybrid or an OS that does it all,Microsoft can always change the Start menu again and again to something different as they experiment with it on modern hardware,bit like how many changes we saw on the Win10 preview builds with Start menu,nothing stops them from refining it again and again.

It has nothing to do with if I like the old Start menu or not.
 
Rroff said:
I get that but you also need to inspire people to want to move to the new OS on release - browse through the feedback there are a lot of people who aren't happy with the most fundamental implementation of many aspects of the OS (and haven't been for a long time and still little has been done about some of the more pertinent complaints outside of bug fixes to existing functionality) before you even get to more opinionated/moaning stuff (unless your view is every criticism of the OS is whinging....).
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Sorry but not liking the recycle bin icon doesn't tally up with "fundamental implementation of the OS". It's an icon. The main OS is the plumbing underneath the UI that you'd you can't see.

By all means raise UI issues, but the UI and it's prettification isn't the OS, it's the sprinkles on top.

Take away the dislike for Metro and the flat, square look 90s look of Windows 8.1 and it's there's some really good engineering underneath.
 
MagicBoy said:
Sorry but not liking the recycle bin icon doesn't tally up with "fundamental implementation of the OS". It's an icon. The main OS is the plumbing underneath the UI that you'd you can't see.

By all means raise UI issues, but the UI and it's prettification isn't the OS, it's the sprinkles on top.

Take away the dislike for Metro and the flat, square look 90s look of Windows 8.1 and it's there's some really good engineering underneath.
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As I mentioned I'm aware that its a preview/beta and images, etc. will somewhat be placeholders and so on but as most of the UI visual updates (and why spend dev time on UI updates when the placeholder will do - replacing ropey icons/controls/images with new ropey icons/controls/images just raises questions) have been steps backwards rather than forward and its fairly close to Windows 8 I don't expect miracles come release - the recycle bin was just one of many things I was highlighting in that image including the overall layout and usability.

End of the day the UI is what you have to deal with so if its clunky or awkward to use it doesn't matter how excellent the underlying code is and people don't generally by choice use an ugly UI over one that looks a bit more pleasing on the eyes.

There may be some areas with good engineering but there are a lot of areas that show some really bad coding and design work - literally someone in college messing about with visual basic could do a better job of the start menu and I can't count the number of bugs with it i.e. buttons not updating or not responding, sorting/sizes randomly resetting or doing their own thing, right click menu items sometimes disappearing or appearing as double or even triple entries and so on.

(I have spent many many hours doing UI programming and/or design over many systems from low level stuff in DOS, games, windows applications through to webmin, etc. so I know a bit about what I'm talking about and I know poor standard of work when I see it.)
 
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Rroff said:
literally someone in college messing about with visual basic could do a better job of the start menu
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really :rolleyes:

Rroff said:
(I have spent many many hours doing UI programming and/or design over many systems from low level stuff in DOS, games, windows applications through to webmin, etc. so I know a bit about what I'm talking about and I know poor standard of work when I see it.)
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ahhh the good old classic I've been into PC's for X years and I know better........:D
 
Rroff said:
As I mentioned I'm aware that its a preview/beta and images, etc. will somewhat be placeholders and so on but as most of the UI visual updates (and why spend dev time on UI updates when the placeholder will do - replacing ropey icons/controls/images with new ropey icons/controls/images just raises questions) have been steps backwards rather than forward and its fairly close to Windows 8 I don't expect miracles come release - the recycle bin was just one of many things I was highlighting in that image including the overall layout and usability.

End of the day the UI is what you have to deal with so if its clunky or awkward to use it doesn't matter how excellent the underlying code is and people don't generally by choice use an ugly UI over one that looks a bit more pleasing on the eyes.

There may be some areas with good engineering but there are a lot of areas that show some really bad coding and design work - literally someone in college messing about with visual basic could do a better job of the start menu and I can't count the number of bugs with it i.e. buttons not updating or not responding, sorting/sizes randomly resetting or doing their own thing, right click menu items sometimes disappearing or appearing as double or even triple entries and so on.

(I have spent many many hours doing UI programming and/or design over many systems from low level stuff in DOS, games, windows applications through to webmin, etc. so I know a bit about what I'm talking about and I know poor standard of work when I see it.)
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OS in question will always be a preference thing especially on layout etc,we all have different needs and use Operating Systems in different ways,end of the day I have no issues with changes in layout etc like I stated earlier.

Personally too early to fully judge Win10 until RTM or final build and even then I will need a few good months testing after to see how it pans out with updates and on stability,compatibility etc...

Nothing so far I can't handle,Operating Systems in many ways are all different.

Some people say Win8.1 is clunky but to me it's second nature in using and so easy on UI/layout,Win10 is really no different IMHO.
 
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hyperseven said:
really :rolleyes:



ahhh the good old classic I've been into PC's for X years and I know better........:D
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I guess its like a lot of development these days :( people doing it as a career without half the drive, insight or passion of the old school programmers - the giants that many of todays programmers are standing on the shoulders of.

In all seriousness though atleast as far as front end functionality goes the start menu in Windows 10 falls below the average standard of work from my old programming class at college.

Take the mick :P but how many people here have created a fully functional GUI in QB45 or experience with customising the RISC OS UI (WIMP programming, template editor, etc.), created a modified GUI environment for Debian based off fluxbox and gnome or a complete shell replacement for Windows 3.xx created in VB3 (lol)? and thats just a tiny bit of my experience with UI development even if I'm not an authority on the subject.
 
Skeeter said:
If Windows 8 has taught me anything, its that a start menu is pretty obsolete.

Pinned items on the task bar and a search function and that's it. I only ever use the start screen or menu to log off or shut down.

The only usefull things are links to settings, and they are all accessible on a right click menu now anyway!
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That was the only thing I really used it for, until someone mentioned you can right click on the Start button in the desktop and get the Shut Down/Log Off options in there too. Now I don't even need to visit the Metro UI part of Win8.1 at all! :D
 
Confused Stu said:
That was the only thing I really used it for, until someone mentioned you can right click on the Start button in the desktop and get the Shut Down/Log Off options in there too. Now I don't even need to visit the Metro UI part of Win8.1 at all! :D
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Just Windows key + x ;)
 
I still don't have the icon in my tray, checked the updates and my PC is up-to date.

I'm sure this has been asked and answered in this thread but am I missing out on a download or is there a workaround etc?

Win8.1 64bit.

Ta
 
I've given up trying to talk to Rroff. He isn't just someone who doesn't like the look of the new start menu, he is so aragant that he's genuinely decided he could do a better job. Yet hes forgotten that the user base is quite a bit bigger than just him.

Your going to struggle to have a meaningful conversation with someone who thinks they are better than Microsoft because they once changed some colours and icons on a Linux machine...
 
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