Poll: Fox Hunting

[Participant]

What ever the Tories do to serve the interests of the middle classes is AOK by me, that's why I voted for them.

 

[lsg1r]

I don't even agree with fox hunting as a pest argument. As I mentioned in an earlier post, in all my years out hunting, I've only come across one fox and cubs and that was 15/16 years ago. I've seen more foxes as road kill near towns than in the wild. And as someone else mentioned in another post, when they're rearing foxes in farms near hunt lodges, it begs the question "are they really that prolific and that much of a pest, that you need to breed them as quarry?".

foxes are pretty common (got some badgers according to road kill too) out here where I live, usually hear them most nights and can even see them casually wandering around on roads early hours of the morning. People keep finding dead chickens too so they're definitely a pest to those that keep them.

I don't agree with rearing foxes for hunting, that's no better than animals for fur etc.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

This is the same, backwards viewpoint that big game hunters used in India, Africa, the US, etc. Hunting buffalo to near extinction (often shooting them from passing trains and leaving them to rot), tigers to the verge of extinction in India (indeed several sub species are extinct). What great sport!

Do you not feel you could connect with nature *without* shooting something, or mauling it to death with a pack of dogs trained for that purpose?

I seem to be able to connect with nature just fine by going for a walk in the countryside. The shedding of blood doesn't seem to be an essential part of the process.

And yet in Africa, safari hunting is helping to ensure sustainable populations of many important animals. If the land owners weren't able to do this, they'd use the land for something more economically viable, which would basically end the game populations there. I don't consider this ideal, but its by far the best solution in a world with a growing population.

But yes, as Moses points out, nice straw man argument. I clearly mentioned sustainable populations.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

Ban needs to stay. There are far better ways of, when necessary, controlling the fox population.

The arguments for fox hunting are laughable at best and mostly insulting to peoples intelligence.

 

[FoxEye]

He mentions hunting sustainably... you start spacking out about people hunting stuff to extinction. Good work.

The point I was responding to was his assertion that hunting with hounds "connects you to nature".

It is a fact that in the 20th century, trophy hunters and indeed hunters of all types believed that they were conservationists, possessing a strong bond with nature. Take birds, for example. They would be shot in droves by such "naturalists", often to the point of severe endangerment.

The idea that you can have a strong bond with nature by killing wildlife is not a new idea, but it's equally ridiculous now as it was in the last century. It does not matter if you do it "sustainably" or not. The justification for it is weak beyond belief.

In China, they farm tigers in pens for their parts for TCM. The conditions are apparently horrific. The Chinese would say that's sustainable. The rest of the world condemns TCM for its shockingly unscientific nature, and the cruelty the animals are subjected to.

Being sustainable does not make animal cruelty OK.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Sub-urban areas seem to be crawling with foxes. Plenty of places for them to live away from people and unlimited food from those stupid food bins. I literately see 3/4 foxes daily where i live in north surrey. The places where they need culling are places where you cant hunt foxes using dogs. I wouldnt say it has too many foxes for my liking but rather has felt the effects of increase fox population as pets regularly get attacked and birdlife seems to be wavering. My cat has gotten into a fight with two foxes and my GFs lurcher has attacked one just this year alone. These foxes are raising my pet insurance premiums!

 

[Nitefly]

I literately see 3/4 foxes daily where i live in north surrey.

 

[adolf hamster]

Farmer shooting a fox thats been eating his chickens? Perfectly fine.


Bunch of rich idiots making dogs maul foxes for fun? Nope, not happening.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Many people from surrey on this forum. I have lived in guildford in central surrey and it isnt much better. I am sure other Surrey-ites can confirm just how many you can see in the summer walking home from the pun. Has gotten way worse since the seperate waste food bins have been introduced. They just knock them over and feast and leave a mess on my drive

 

[Schlong&Stable]

The point I was responding to was his assertion that hunting with hounds "connects you to nature".

It is a fact that in the 20th century, trophy hunters and indeed hunters of all types believed that they were conservationists, possessing a strong bond with nature. Take birds, for example. They would be shot in droves by such "naturalists", often to the point of severe endangerment.

The idea that you can have a strong bond with nature by killing wildlife is not a new idea, but it's equally ridiculous now as it was in the last century. It does not matter if you do it "sustainably" or not. The justification for it is weak beyond belief.

Nothing you have said actually disputes my claim that hunting connects you with nature. The fact hunting as a whole might be disastrous to a given population, does not detract from the individual experience of hunters. Some may be jerks, no doubt, but there are always going to be jerks. Most hunters are not jerks.

In China, they farm tigers in pens for their parts for TCM. The conditions are apparently horrific. The Chinese would say that's sustainable. The rest of the world condemns TCM for its shockingly unscientific nature, and the cruelty the animals are subjected to.

Being sustainable does not make animal cruelty OK.

What is your point? There are criticisms of some poor hospitals in the NHS, so should we close down the whole service?

 

[FoxEye]

Nothing you have said actually disputes my claim that hunting connects you with nature. The fact hunting as a whole might be disastrous to a given population, does not detract from the individual experience of hunters. Some may be jerks, no doubt, but there are always going to be jerks. Most hunters are not jerks.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your sole argument seems to be "hunters enjoy hunting". That seems to be your sole justification for repealing the ban.

I'm not sure where you stand on animal welfare, or preventing unnecessary suffering, but I'm guessing you aren't too bothered?

And sorry, but anyone who dresses up and rides a horse around behind a pack of dogs trained to seek and destroy foxes is a jerk. End of.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

Nothing you have said actually disputes my claim that hunting connects you with nature. The fact hunting as a whole might be disastrous to a given population, does not detract from the individual experience of hunters. Some may be jerks, no doubt, but there are always going to be jerks. Most hunters are not jerks.



What is your point? There are criticisms of some poor hospitals in the NHS, so should we close down the whole service?

None of what you are saying is an argument for fox hunting with horse and hound Are you for or against it?

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but your sole argument seems to be "hunters enjoy hunting". That seems to be your sole justification for repealing the ban.

You're wrong, and frankly it worries me just how wrong you are, because I struggle to understand how a rational and intelligent person could reach that conclusion.

Please read my original post where I express my views. If you still don't understand my position, please consider alt+f4 as your best possible reply to me.

I'm not sure where you stand on animal welfare, or preventing unnecessary suffering, but I'm guessing you aren't too bothered?

And sorry, but anyone who dresses up and rides a horse around behind a pack of dogs trained to seek and destroy foxes is a jerk. End of.

You guessed wrong. Seriously.. alt+f4 is an entirely valid move for you at this point.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

None of what you are saying is an argument for fox hunting with horse and hound Are you for or against it?

As I said, I'd rather be the fox than the hen. So although I do not personally want to hunt a fox, I don't object to people doing so as long as the populations are sustainable.

 

[Elixir]

What a load of cobblers!!

He has a point, it's very easy to live without eating meat nowadays. Why do most of us still do it? Because it tastes nice, i.e. entertainment.

If you think fox hunting is a cruel and vicious sport but popping down to Nando's for some factory farmed chicken is entirely ethical then you should probably reassess.

 

[Dolph]

The hunting ban has done nothing to stop foxes being killed. Banning it was always a class warfare disguised as something else. What has happened is also exactly what the study commissioned by parliament said would happen.

As such, it should be repealed.

 

[StriderX]

SO because the victim of such an atrocious crime of this ban is wealthy and learned, we should just forget and move on?

Ohh gee, that always happens for the poorer people! /s

 

[Schlong&Stable]

He has a point, it's very easy to live without eating meat nowadays. Why do most of us still do it? Because it tastes nice, i.e. entertainment.

If you think fox hunting is a cruel and vicious sport but popping down to Nando's for some factory farmed chicken is entirely ethical then you should probably reassess.

Indeed.

Incidentally I do not object to eating meat. I love me some bacon. I'd even eat a fox.

 

[Nitefly]

People hunt because it's fun.

People eat meat because it's fun.

Both hunting and breeding animals for food has some element of cruelty. So I do see where Thompson_NCL is coming from.

I think people distinguish the two because breeding animals for food does not, by default, have to involve subjecting animals to cruel conditions at all. The reality is cruel conditions come from the incentive to make £££ and general ignorance / lack of support for change.

I also find hunting more distasteful because the pleasure seems to come from the act of killing the animal itself, rather than procuring a benefit that is subsequent to the animals death (e.g. enjoying a resource).

Those points considered, I think I can fairly say that in a 'perfect world isolated system' hunting is more morally dubious than eating meat, However, the reality is that the food industry, on the scale that it is, encourages immoral practice.

I feel OK to condemn hunting whilst simultaneously enjoying eating meat. If I was to actively support the ban on hunting, I suppose I should actively oppose cruelty within the meat industry too.

 

[=XDC=FluphyBunny]

As I said, I'd rather be the fox than the hen. So although I do not personally want to hunt a fox, I don't object to people doing so as long as the populations are sustainable.

Fox hunting has nothing to do with controlling populations. It is extremely inefficient and is far more to do with the enjoyment of a select few at the cost of terrifying a small creature. A correctly placed .223 is a far more humane and effective means of controlling the population.

I do agree with your views on farming techniques and must admit to not doing enough myself in that respect. If we were allowed to vote on it (the ban of factory farming/improved animal welfare) I would vote yes to a ban on that as well.

It won't happen as the general public wouldn't pay the increased costs for the end product.