Alex Salmond: A second Scottish referendum is inevitible

[[FnG]magnolia]

Out of the loop here so sorry for any repeating questions but is lovelyhead Biohazard or someone who posts just like him?

I have no input on the thread other than this. Just looking to understand why one poster commands more than 80% of the posts in one thread

 

[lovelyhead]

Out of the loop here so sorry for any repeating questions but is lovelyhead Biohazard or someone who posts just like him?

I have no input on the thread other than this. Just looking to understand why one poster commands more than 80% of the posts in one thread

Just for the record I am not Biohazard. Maybe the mods could confirm with IP checks or something.

 

[eddiemcgarrigle]

Although turnout in the Local Elections was low, the average swing to the SNP from Labour was 19% with a near 50% win of the vote.

 

[Sliver]

I have no input on the thread...

If you could apply this to every thread that would be great m8.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Oh noes. The nasty SNP winning more elections!

http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/08/snp-vote-surges-by-25-as-heroic-hepburn.html

They can win all the seats they want, but they lost the referendum and there won't be another any time soon. Despite the SNPs most ardent claims.

But even if there was, has the economic picture actually improved or worsened for Scotland, now that oil prices have collapsed? The argument for independence has become weaker, and I sincerely wish more Unionist politicians would point out that fact.

 

[cainer]

Just for the record I am not Biohazard. Maybe the mods could confirm with IP checks or something.

probably not possable as he was permabanned some time ago

 

[lovelyhead]

probably not possable as he was permabanned some time ago

Well choose whatever you want to believe.

They can win all the seats they want, but they lost the referendum and there won't be another any time soon.

We'll see.

 

[lovelyhead]

Have you had time to come up with a response to the economic critique on the previous page? (I'm on eighty posts/page, so between now and ~100 posts previously). I'm guess no, and won't hold my breath.

Who can say how the SNP will present their argument for the next referendum.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Who can say how the SNP will present their argument for the next referendum.

There is no sensible argument to present.

Their whole economic plan at the previous referendum was based on the idea of 'massive oil reserves' giving Scotland a Norwegian style income level. But the oil prices have collapsed, and even before they collapsed, the Norwegians were coming to the terms with the fact their economy was not sustainable.

If there was another way to make the Scottish economy work (better than it does now), they'd have presented that at the last referendum alongside the oil. But the reality is, there is nothing.

Anything the SNP presents now is going to either be trivial or complete fantasy, because let us be clear, there is no way to give the average person a better quality of living by increasing the size and scope of government and welfare. The rich will abandon Scotland in droves and average income will drop.

The only Scottish nationalist part I could back, is one that had a real answer to the question of internationalism eroding national sovereignty. The SNP has no such solution, on the contrary, they want to further embrace the disaster that is internationalism.

 

[lovelyhead]

There is no sensible argument to present.

Their whole economic plan at the previous referendum was based on the idea of 'massive oil reserves' giving Scotland a Norwegian style income level. But the oil prices have collapsed, and even before they collapsed, the Norwegians were coming to the terms with the fact their economy was not sustainable.

If there was another way to make the Scottish economy work (better than it does now), they'd have presented that at the last referendum alongside the oil. But the reality is, there is nothing.

Anything the SNP presents now is going to either be trivial or complete fantasy, because let us be clear, there is no way to give the average person a better quality of living by increasing the size and scope of government and welfare. The rich will abandon Scotland in droves and average income will drop.

The only Scottish nationalist part I could back, is one that had a real answer to the question of internationalism eroding national sovereignty. The SNP has no such solution, on the contrary, they want to further embrace the disaster that is internationalism.

Too wee. Too poor. Too stupid.

 

[lovelyhead]

Do you agree that the previous year has shown their last proposal was a joke/it would have been smashed to pieces by reality, though?

No because we would still be part of the union.

 

[Muz333]

There is no sensible argument to present.

Their whole economic plan at the previous referendum was based on the idea of 'massive oil reserves' giving Scotland a Norwegian style income level. But the oil prices have collapsed, and even before they collapsed, the Norwegians were coming to the terms with the fact their economy was not sustainable.

If there was another way to make the Scottish economy work (better than it does now), they'd have presented that at the last referendum alongside the oil. But the reality is, there is nothing.

Anything the SNP presents now is going to either be trivial or complete fantasy, because let us be clear, there is no way to give the average person a better quality of living by increasing the size and scope of government and welfare. The rich will abandon Scotland in droves and average income will drop.

The only Scottish nationalist part I could back, is one that had a real answer to the question of internationalism eroding national sovereignty. The SNP has no such solution, on the contrary, they want to further embrace the disaster that is internationalism.

Agree with everything here. There was always a funding gap and even if there was plenty of oil you can't base a long term stable economy on a finite resource.

A fair point with how left wing they've become as well. It's easy to promise lots of free stuff and be the good guys to get votes but this has to be paid for somewhere. I think some businesses would leave an independent Scotland due to unsure economic situations.

Others may leave, as you suggest, when taxes for this welfare punish the hard working man.

Working in academia doing medical research I would also have doubts on my own job safety. In an independent Scotland we would be unlikely to receive as many grants from British funding bodies.
For grants raised by Scottish funding bodies, such as SULSA, they would likely have less of a pot to go round as money gets directed towards welfare rather than research.

 

[yonderblue]

Out of the loop here so sorry for any repeating questions but is lovelyhead Biohazard or someone who posts just like him?

I have no input on the thread other than this. Just looking to understand why one poster commands more than 80% of the posts in one thread

And why not, Those that support Independence for Scotland are out numbered by the Unionists Keyboard warriors here.

Magnolia is there a call in NZ to be controlled and subjected to illegal invading and bombing countries, Turning a blind eye to child abuse, Cash for access, Cash for peerages, Benefits cut to the poor and disabled, increasing child poverty, Increasing Homelessness, Austerity, Privatisation, Support for Tax Havens while claiming they are they stopping them, Weakest financial regulations in Europe, £1.5+ Trillion debt on the books and Billions off the books, (Make Greece problems look insignificant), Nuclear Weapons, Arms Deals to Dictatorships, Anti-Trade Union Laws, Billions wasted on failed NHS IT systems, Expenses fiddling, House of Lords unelected members after 100 years of failed reforms, Inequality getting wider and wider (UK the 4th most unequal nation in the developed world) by the immoral and corrupt Westminster.

My guess is not.

 

[lovelyhead]

Obviously. But they'd be ripping up the plan and having to drastically change everything, right?

Basically, can you accept that their economic argument was flawed/has been destroyed by the oil price dropping as it has?

If you can't, you have zero credibility and are embarrassing yourself. Or have no idea what you're talking about.

Who can say? Maybe something will happen to turn the oil price around? Even if it didn't, it wouldn't mean Scotland would be instantly bankrupt and not able to function. It would mean the SNP would have to scrap some of their plans and maybe make some other cut backs. At least those would be Scottish mistakes made by Scottish people, rather than the current situation of British mistakes made by people who have no constituents in Scotland.

And why not, Those that support Independence for Scotland are out numbered by the Unionists Keyboard warriors here.

Magnolia is there a call in NZ to be controlled and subjected to illegal invading and bombing countries, Turning a blind eye to child abuse, Cash for access, Cash for peerages, Benefits cut to the poor and disabled, increasing child poverty, Increasing Homelessness, Austerity, Privatisation, Support for Tax Havens while claiming they are they stopping them, Weakest financial regulations in Europe, £1.5+ Trillion debt on the books and Billions off the books, (Make Greece problems look insignificant), Nuclear Weapons, Arms Deals to Dictatorships, Anti-Trade Union Laws, Billions wasted on failed NHS IT systems, Expenses fiddling, House of Lords unelected members after 100 years of failed reforms, Inequality getting wider and wider (UK the 4th most unequal nation in the developed world) by the immoral and corrupt Westminster.

My guess is not.

Spot on. Yet, as you say, the unionist keyboard warriors here call me a cultist and fanatic for wanting to separate from all of this bull.

The SNP are not perfect, they may not have it all figured out 100% correctly, but what they are right about is that Scotland is it's own nation that holds a different set of ideals from the rest of the UK. You can see this fact just by looking at how the SNP is doing at elections. They are dominating. Scots have rejected the politics of the union. The problem is there is a slight majority of people who are scared to take that one final step to be free of the corrupt union. Support for independence is never going to go away. All we need to do is convince a few hundred thousand more people that the risk is worth it and we will get our freedom.

The union is not getting stronger so I believe Independence is inevitable.

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Too wee. Too poor. Too stupid.

I am Scottish, a fact which I am proud of. I don't think of Scotland is stupid, small or poor, I just realise that the United Kingdom is the best possible outcome for everyone living on these isles. Our relationship is deeper than a common border; its a shared language, culture, history, genetics, familial ties and so forth.

The SNP don't offer anything. Sure they might have some slightly different policies, but on the whole it will still be tied to the future as rUK. And what is the point in getting sovereignty from Westminster to give it away to Brussels?

Also the whole 'we'd still be in the UK' is laughable, because it proves the Unionists right. Scotland was able to weather this year because they have the support of the Union. Outside, they'd be struggling and running a bigger deficit.

Although I see you don't actually have any meaningful responses to my points.

 

[lovelyhead]

Our relationship is deeper than a common border; its a shared language, culture, history, genetics, familial ties and so forth.

None of which will be lost if Scotland were independent.

The SNP don't offer anything. Sure they might have some slightly different policies, but on the whole it will still be tied to the future as rUK. And what is the point in getting sovereignty from Westminster to give it away to Brussels?

They are offering Scots the chance to make their own decisions instead of leaving it to the corrupt, vile, pedo loving westminster establishment.

 

[xs2man]

The main problem is you are simply disregarding the last 300 years, for some nonsensical patriotic (I assume) reason, and don't see Scotland for what it really is. A part of the UK.

You can somehow hold a complete contempt and disregard for the democracy of not only the whole of the UK, but also Scotland, in your misguided beliefs that somehow we are better than the rest of the UK. That somehow, the government, as elected for by the whole of the country, is somehow undemocratic in it's governing of all parts of the UK, to which it was elected to govern.

Meanwhile, simultaneously making the statement that the proper, democratic, way to go is with the will of the minority, not just of the UK, but the minority in Scotland, for which you claim to be the sole voice of reason.

If you don't like the way the country is run, if you prefer a political persuasion more to the left, you are free. Free to go to whatever country, in Europe at least, if not the world, that has an electorate more in line with your left leaning ideals. I suggest Scandinavia for example. They are mostly left leaning countries. Although I suspect you will quickly tire of the obscene levels of taxation that is required for such leanings, and miss the UK, and it's lower taxation policies. We do, as part of Europe, have the ability to move to wherever we like. So the only person stopping you from having a government whose policies are more in line with your own thinking, is yourself. You don't need to live here, in a country where the majority of the people hold different political values are different from your own.

 

[StriderX]

Ugh please stop discussing this

It's just round-a-bouts for the past 4 years...FOUR.

 

[xs2man]

Alternatively, you COULD just not look at this thread...

I do agree though, just round-a-bouts.

 

[lovelyhead]

That somehow, the government, as elected for by the whole of the country, is somehow undemocratic in it's governing of all parts of the UK, to which it was elected to govern.

Hate to break it to you but the last time I checked the 97% of all elected representatives in Scotland were not part of the government.

Meanwhile, simultaneously making the statement that the proper, democratic, way to go is with the will of the minority, not just of the UK, but the minority in Scotland, for which you claim to be the sole voice of reason.

When Scotland does become Independent it will be because the majority of Scots want it.

If you don't like the way the country is run, if you prefer a political persuasion more to the left, you are free. Free to go to whatever country, in Europe at least, if not the world, that has an electorate more in line with your left leaning ideals. I suggest Scandinavia for example. They are mostly left leaning countries. Although I suspect you will quickly tire of the obscene levels of taxation that is required for such leanings, and miss the UK, and it's lower taxation policies. We do, as part of Europe, have the ability to move to wherever we like. So the only person stopping you from having a government whose policies are more in line with your own thinking, is yourself. You don't need to live here, in a country where the majority of the people hold different political values are different from your own.

As we say in Scotland, what a load of pish! Again, hate to break it to you, Scotland is a left leaning country. I am living in one right now so have no need to go anywhere. Unless when you say country, you are meaning the UK, which would further my argument that Scotland holds different political beliefs than the rest of the UK and would be better of going it alone so that we could have a chance of implementing those socialist beliefs without the kiddy fiddlers down in Westminster saying, naw.

Ugh please stop discussing this

It's just round-a-bouts for the past 4 years...FOUR.

I am happy to say to you that you'd better get used to it, because we are never going away!