A friend, religion, and what to do?

As others have said have a small listen to some of Richard Dawkins for some clear and rather valid points, but the gist of it is:

1) Religion "explains" the inexplicable with more inexplicable
2) Religious values are typically about smiting those who do not believe in God or follows typical norms.
3) Many of the religious book stories are in the most rather horrid and inhumane.

The good in these texts is few and far in between and are pretty much good human morality which you do not need to read a 2000+ year old book to learn of.

Atheism is a horrid word, it sounds like a cult or a religion in itself. But simply put I base my opinion on fact, on the facts and progress we have made over the last few hundred years which have given us vast amounts of knowledge, technology and other wondrous things of which religion has played no part at all apart from slowing progress down.

Religion has slowed progress, caused and still causes much pain to this day across the world. Some type more so than others typically in the Middle-Eastern countries, luckily modern Christianity is quite harmless however it doesn't make the whole idea any less wrong.

I wouldn't describe myself as an Atheist however I do not follow the disgusting cult that religion is, the sooner these ancient and dangerous organisations leave us alone the more the human race will proper in general.

Going back to the OP question, honestly this is a difficult one. I would quite clearly lay down my views with valid reasoning and back it with evidence. Then ask him to do the same with his new religious believes and at least give him a grounding to make a more informed choice. Hopefully you may be able to snap him to his senses.
 
rIcK said:
Going back to the OP question, honestly this is a difficult one. I would quite clearly lay down my views with valid reasoning and back it with evidence. Then ask him to do the same with his new religious believes and at least give him a grounding to make a more informed choice. Hopefully you may be able to snap him to his senses.
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I would say just don't do anything like that at all but instead just talk to him about this change you've noticed. As someone else said, there's a reason this has triggered. Don't try to make him change his new ways, as it is clearly giving him a reason to pootle on each day.

Listen > Understand > React appropriately, or no reaction needed at all if the reasoning is sound and won't do harm to himself or anyone else.
 
mrk said:
Simple question that always gets the same answer, I wonder some folks here will answer the same way. If god is all seeing and all mighty, then why do innocent people suffer, why do children get abused by adults, why do schoolgirls in certain parts of the world get killed for wanting to go to school? Why are animals abused? Why do women in Eastern Asian countries have acid thrown in their faces? All of the inhuman things that humans do to other living beings is total proof that if there once was a god, there isn't one any more, either he's given up on humans or he never existed in the first place.

There simply isn't any other explanation, and will often result in a straw man response by opposing views.

I'm all for an open discussion, and indeed it should be discussed, and it's not going against any religion to question it either, because everything is under god's design is it not? Our ability to question what's around us, or is that something that's evolved over time too.

Remember, historically humans have always worshipped whatever they don't understand. This is why sun gods "existed", the gods of the seas, the moon and every other god from an event of nature.

I think it's fine that people believe whatever they want, if it makes their (our!) lives easier to manage then nobody has the right to say otherwise. It's when people get into illogical arguments over an opposing view and attempt to push their views on others, that I begin to feel there is a problem.
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Well, the assumption built into that question is that perhaps it will always be this way. That is an assumption.

You say there isn't any explanation, but there is. The explanation given me is that we are living in a period which will come to an end, where we are able to exercise free will without constraint. A situation which arose due to a challenge on God's right to govern. Apparently the way to answer this challenge was to see how well we'd do on our own. That is a gross simplification for brevity, however, as other issues were at stake.

The Bible does provide answers to these fundamental questions, and the asking of them demonstrates that perhaps people are critical of religion without having studied it in any great depth.
 
FoxEye said:
Well, the assumption built into that question is that perhaps it will always be this way. That is an assumption.

You say there isn't any explanation, but there is. The explanation given me is that we are living in a period which will come to an end, where we are able to exercise free will without constraint. A situation which arose due to a challenge on God's right to govern. Apparently the way to answer this challenge was to see how well we'd do on our own. That is a gross simplification for brevity, however, as other issues were at stake.

The Bible does provide answers to these fundamental questions, and the asking of them demonstrates that perhaps people are critical of religion without having studied it in any great depth.
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That's an interesting point, but surely seeing how we cope on our own with the limited time this planet has is a double edged sword in itself? On one hand we know that we will leave this planet one day and make home elsewhere. Futurology for the human race is strong and technology paves the way for this. This isn't Sci-Fi, this is a real thing that will happen. God will have had no input in that at all.

The other thing I'd like to put forward is more local to us in the present. there are remote tribes of humans that have never had contact with the rest of the world. Those people have no exposure to any major religion. What happens to them? They are every bit as human as anyone else on the planet, they just so happen to have no been exposed to the same human traits as the rest of us.

A God with so much power just would not need to "test" his creation just to see how they get on by themselves, they would be perfect from day 1. To put forward the thought that a test needs to be done like this also puts forward that God is not as godlike as holy words and texts make him out to be, that he's not 100% perfect. There genuinely is no logical reason that a child should die by being chopped up into pieces or burned alive or anything else equally horrid.

When Abraham offered to sacrifice Isaac, God was said to have intervened and instructed the blade to not do a single thing to the son. So why does he not instruct every weapon that is about to kill an innocent being to do the same?
 
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I sometimes ask myself what I would do with unlimited power.

Would I stop every crime from taking place? Save every victim? Well, firstly I'm not the originator of the human race or the planet, so for starters you'd rightly question my authority for doing so.

But secondly, by restricting what is possible and what isn't possible - by allowing only good things to happen and not bad - I would be reducing you all to automatons. Taking away your free will, by ensuring that nobody will do anything wrong for fear of the consequences (I could zap you or imprison you with all that power. For the worst offenders there would be Bieber non-stop until your sanity crumbled).

Essentially we are not automatons. That doesn't mean God condones evil acts, or child suffering. But like I said, a challenge was made. We are answering this challenge by our actions once and /for all time/. There will not be another period of unrestricted free will as far as I can tell. And we are talking about an infinite lifespan for the human race, so even a few thousand years of suffering is as nothing in the grand scheme of things.
 
Each to his own in my view, as long as people don't push their religious thoughts onto me I could care less what they believed in.
 
I don't see it as any different to joining a cult. You should do something about it as soon as possible. Atheism is not a belief, it's a realisation and assesment of facts, which prove that the origins of organised religion are a falacy. Show him this.
 
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If it makes him happy and it's not going to get him in any trouble, leave him to it. You might not believe in it, but for some people religion provides a genuine purpose for them and also hope for the future.

I used to think I was atheist, but then I realised my views are actually more aligned to agnosticism. I wonder how many people in here aren't aware of the distinction.
 
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OP should show his friend how tolerant Atheists are by leaving him alone and showing him some respect.

Popping him down in front of some Dawkins rants on youtube will only lead him to form an (incorrect, naturally) opinion that some Atheists are complete gits.
 
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spudbynight said:
OP should show his friend how tolerant Atheists are by leaving him alone and showing him some respect.

Popping him down in front of some Dawkins rants on youtube will only lead him to form an (incorrect, naturally) opinion that some Atheists are complete gits.
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Like any other collective there are good and bad within. Some atheists are tools. Dawkins is not a 'git' by any stretch of the imagination. He's actually a very nice chap and accomplished scientist, author and public speaker. The gits tend to be the ones deriding Dawkins.
 
Live and let live.

As long as he isn't trying to force his views down your throat then I think you should show the same courtesy in return.

By all means try and have a reasoned debate with him, but to be honest having done this myself with a couple of close friends invariably the discussion essentially boils down to an impasse. I believe what I believe and they do not, and vice versa.
 
Sliver said:
Like any other collective there are good and bad within. Some atheists are tools. Dawkins is not a 'git' by any stretch of the imagination. He's actually a very nice chap and accomplished scientist, author and public speaker. The gits tend to be the ones deriding Dawkins.
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Sorry, you missed my point.

The git would be the one sitting him down in front of these videos.
 
dirtychinchilla said:
Yeah man, absolutely try and talk him round! I'm sure there will be a lot of posts saying leave him to it, but I'd really struggle to stay friends with someone who held such illogical views, and I'd consider his judgement on many things seriously compromised.

This will seriously effect his life, and particularly if you feel he's being duped, you shouldn't let that slide.

No doubt it'll be difficult,t hoguh.
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Once again the insanely liberal show just how liberal they truely are...

Op i can understand your position and i think youd be a good friend to be honest if you thought he was honestly being lead astray.

But if its genuinely a case of him finding some peace and happiness, then where is the harm? :)
 
Militant atheists and militant evangelistic religious people are just as bad as one another.

You don't want their opinions rammed down your throat all the time, or because you dare be different and have beliefs of your own.

Live and let live. If someone has found, or lost their faith, support them as a friend, understand why they have turned away or towards faith, and support them without forcing your views and opinions on them. That's what friendship is about, not berating and belittling someone's choice.
 
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