The EU Migrant Crisis

scorza · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:01

amigafan2003 said:
He's just going with the tide (pun not intended) of public opinion.

Thankfully he doesn't take notice of opinion on these forums.

Is he? or is he just pandering to the media? who imo are shamelessly exploiting Aylan's death.

Tephnos · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:01

Statistics on public opinion from a year ago, you can expect where that's gone in another year of this.

http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/12/chapter-3-most-support-limiting-immigration/

CREATIVE!11 · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:01

amigafan2003 said:
He's just going with the tide (pun not intended) of public opinion.

Thankfully he doesn't take notice of opinion on these forums.

I don't think 100k is really the whole country. It's a bunch of people kicking off on facebook over that picture.... the fact is stuff like that goes on every day all over the world. But another facebook social media storm everyone can get riled up about.

The people who don't want it aren't signing anything. That's the thing. Most people are too afraid to say how they really feel about it, I openly say no to more migrants based on reasons given in many of my previous posts. I don't say no to finding a solution and helping but definitely taking in a bunch of people again will not rebuild syria or fix it.

Tephnos · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:04

scorza said:
Is he? or is he just pandering to the media? who imo are shamelessly exploiting Aylan's death.

The propaganda of this really bugs me. I feel sorry for the kid, I really do, but then you see this:

http://mic.com/articles/124826/photo-of-the-syrian-boy-drowned-in-turkey-prompts-powerful-reaction

This is the worst kind of propaganda because it presents a stance that you cannot possibly dispute from a moral perspective, in doing so it overwhelmingly stifles all forms of discussion where the opposing views are involved. It becomes emotionally charged with little logical backing, when unfortunately, the world isn't so black and white. Matters like these are never as simple as conveyed via a single photo, and it is only made worse when it is framed from a single perspective sprinkled with massive amounts of sensationalism.

The photo will raise awareness to the west, which is good, but it will also make it nearly impossible for productive discussion to take place now. It's the same stuff over and over, and reminds me of the Ferguson incidents.

CREATIVE!11 · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:06

Tephnos said:
The propaganda of this really bugs me. I feel sorry for the kid, I really do, but then you see this:

http://mic.com/articles/124826/photo-of-the-syrian-boy-drowned-in-turkey-prompts-powerful-reaction

This is the worst kind of propaganda because it presents a stance that you cannot possibly dispute from a moral perspective, in doing so it overwhelmingly stifles all forms of discussion where the opposing views are involved. It becomes emotionally charged with little logical backing, when unfortunately, the world isn't so black and white. Matters like these are never as simple as conveyed via a single photo.

The photo will raise awareness to the west, which is good, but it will also make it nearly impossible for productive discussion to take place now. It's the same stuff over and over, and reminds me of the Ferguson incidents.

Yeah not saying what happened isn't sad. Absolutely it's terrible.

But it reminds me of cecil the lion.... people grip onto something to go mental about and dismiss any rational discussion now.... and it's always clickbait / social media fuelled I notice...

Like I said, plenty of this stuff happens every day.

scorza · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:07

I'm watching pictures on the news, of basically what amounts to a mini-riot by the migrants because the Hungarian authorities tried to send them to a refugee camp for processing. This doesn't seem like they're really seeking asylum to me.

icehot · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:08

Tephnos said:
Well, I imagine the Jews in Germany didn't have a culture that directly opposed western cultures and values, did it? Of course nobody wants to talk about that, because its racist or something.

CREATIVE!11 · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:09

scorza said:
I'm watching pictures on the news, of basically what amounts to a mini-riot by the migrants because the Hungarian authorities tried to send them to a refugee camp for processing. This doesn't seem like they're really seeking asylum to me.

What I notice is people who are pro immigration don't seem to acknowledge those kinds of videos... they seem to dismiss them. Like I said earlier in the thread, you want to pay for migrants? go ahead host them in your own home or donate, but don't use the public purse to fund your moral crusade.

Do these people signing the petition think for a second how this may affect the future of this country? the cost? the housing etc? burden on the NHS?

Have they sat down and thought it through or do you think they've just seen a picture and had nothing more than an emotional knee jerk reaction without any thought. If we made all our decisions in life like that we'd be truly screwed....

Robbo · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:14

I think this is a very difficult situation, and I do feel for those people less fortunate than us. However, I don't think the solution is to start letting unsustainable numbers of people into the country, or the EU really. It's also sensible to question how many of these people, given the dire circumstances they're from, could be productive members of society.

The whole sudden outrage due to a picture is daft, when people read headlines of boats capsizing and people drowning, what do they think it looks like.

Due to the atrocious nature of some parts of the world, I can't see this ever being solved and we'll end up with an ever increasing flow of people coming into various countries - which isn't ideal.

anything I don't mind · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:17

I think the left is basing their arguments on emotion and that is very dangerous because people are not rational when they are acting on emotion. It is very naive to think that we can let 100k of migrants who do not share the same values in to the country without negative consequences. Crime will go up substantially if we allow all these migrants in to the country. Sure conscript made a fair point that the solutions is probably found somewhere in between the extreme left and right on this one. I still don't think it is morally wrong to not want to let the migrants in, i would say that it is irresponsible to let the migrants in based on emotion without considering the consequences.

Jokester · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:17

Politicians don't want to do the thing that needs to be done which is crack down on them. Making it easy and letting them get on with it will just give entirely the wrong message to those back in Libya/Syria resulting in even more deaths of people trying to cross the sea.

It was pointed out, what 6 months ago now that their decision to actively rescue people from the sea would have exactly this effect and it's no wonder we're now being swamped with people now.

Edit: Doesn't help that Germany has said they will take 800,000 refugees this year either. No wonder they all want to go there. It's a massive carrot on a stick.

Housey · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:18

We can't fix the worlds problems and we didn't cause most of them. WW3 is closer today than it has been in my entire life.

balky12 · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:19

Tephnos said:
The able bodied men are able to make the trek across the EU.

Afaik the sick, disabled and old all got left behind.

As i posted earlier...

The people who are needed to help change the course of these countries are jumping ship. In effect making these countries worse.

Able bodied, richer, younger, smarter, entrepreneurial minds are all leaving. Left behind are the old, weak, poor... easy pickings for fundamentalism.

kitch9 · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:21

Robbo said:
I think this is a very difficult situation, and I do feel for those people less fortunate than us. However, I don't think the solution is to start letting unsustainable numbers of people into the country, or the EU really. It's also sensible to question how many of these people, given the dire circumstances they're from, could be productive members of society.

The whole sudden outrage due to a picture is daft, when people read headlines of boats capsizing and people drowning, what do they think it looks like.

Due to the atrocious nature of some parts of the world, I can't see this ever being solved and we'll end up with an ever increasing flow of people coming into various countries - which isn't ideal.

Maybe we should block the last horrible batch of eastern Europeans who have turned up with no intention of integration and instead resort to leaving their feaces in the street / public places for God knows what reason in favour of these refugees.

At least they would be thankful to be here.

Shampoo · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:21

Edit: moron brother posting junk. Apologies.

Puzzled · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:22

scorza said:
I'm watching pictures on the news, of basically what amounts to a mini-riot by the migrants because the Hungarian authorities tried to send them to a refugee camp for processing. This doesn't seem like they're really seeking asylum to me.

Just what we need in the EU, more angry young men blinded by religion.

The images of the young boy are incredibly sad but if Cameron changes his stance due to it then he will lose a lot of support.

Robbo · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:24

kitch9 said:
Maybe we should block the last horrible batch of eastern Europeans who have turned up with no intention of integration and instead resort to leaving their feaces in the street / public places for God knows what reason in favour of these refugees.

At least they would be thankful to be here.

I'm not in favour of them either, obviously. That is getting (or is already) beyond a joke too.

CREATIVE!11 · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:25

Shampoo said:
I'm surprised at how many on this board are pro-migrant in this situation. What use to a modern, generally Christian liberal democracy would tens of thousands of Muslims whose only loyalty is to Allah? 10/15 years from now, do you think these people are all going to be fully employed model UK citizens or perhaps the reality which is hostile segregated mostly unemployed communities of hostiles who get raised being told that all non-Muslims are more or less scum who need to die.

Look at Paris and Sweden. You actually want that here?

Yep.

That is exactly what will happen. More culture clashes incoming. People are incredibly naive if they think this is going to end well.

OK I'VE SEEN 1 PHOTO, THAT'S IT FOR ME! I'M NOW PRO IMMIGRATION! brb not looking at any of the facts objectively and probably didn't even care until today...

It reminds me of that woman postulating that anyone who is anti immigration is a racist. My god the level of stupid made my brain implode so hard it formed a mini black hole.

scorza · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:33

Jokester said:
Politicians don't want to do the thing that needs to be done which is crack down on them. Making it easy and letting them get on with it will just give entirely the wrong message to those back in Libya/Syria resulting in even more deaths of people trying to cross the sea.

It was pointed out, what 6 months ago now that their decision to actively rescue people from the sea would have exactly this effect and it's no wonder we're now being swamped with people now.

Edit: Doesn't help that Germany has said they will take 800,000 refugees this year either. No wonder they all want to go there. It's a massive carrot on a stick.

The EU-Schengen's response to this crisis has been absolutely diabolical.

anything I don't mind · 3 Sep 2015 at 19:35

In london I am finding this migrant situation is increasing animosity towards me for being white British. There is a massive tendency of everyone to act on emotion and then label the host nation countries immoral for letting people the other side of the world struggle with life. This guilt is a very powerful thing and the media should be ashamed of themselves for picking a story about a dying child and using that to gain sympathy.

ok thats all i got to say on this one thanks