Disgusting Politics

[Freakbro]

Is there a compelling reason why winter fuel allowance and other such benefits should /not/ be means tested?

Two reasons given are as soon as you means test, there's always going to be some people who fall just the wrong side of the line.

Also the cost of administration can outweigh the cost savings benefit.

 

[Burnsy2023]

I said it was chump change compared to overall government spending, not specific departmental spending. Obviously I know that £3bn is would be a huge sum to some departments. You don't need to be Burnsy2023 to spot the obvious.

Then why compare it to NHS spending? A comparison with overall government spending is also completely pointless.

 

[estebanrey]

Is there a compelling reason why winter fuel allowance and other such benefits should /not/ be means tested?

The problem is with this argument is it is very easy to point out the unfairness of Alan Sugar getting a free TV License and Winter Fuel Allowance but for it to have any effect on the pensions budget the cut off points would be people far less as easy to dismiss as being undeserving. It wouldn't be millionaire pensioners that would car about losing their benefits but those just above the really deserving.

Until the government can design benefits systems that aren't so cliff-edged and black and white, I wouldn't trust them to means test pensions. You'll end up with a huge section of people just above the cliff edge who have seen their paying into a work's pension or working extra hours so they could pay their mortgage off before they retired wasted as they now lose stuff other people who didn't bother getting.

 

[Tefal]

I suppose you've never heard the amount of pensioners that choose whether it is heat a room or eat a meal for the day?

how would they be affected by means testing?

surely if you're that poor you'd be in the "yep you need the allowance!" category?

 

[NirK]

Yea, they should do it for free.

Wait, what?

Well no but do they really need their high wages + £300 a day + millions on food and champagne every year, when they are talking about how we need to cut back? No...

 

[Tefal]

The problem is with this argument is it is very easy to point out the unfairness of Alan Sugar getting a free TV License and Winter Fuel Allowance but for it to have any effect on the pensions budget the cut off points would be people far less as easy to dismiss as being undeserving. It wouldn't be millionaire pensioners that would car about losing their benefits but those just above the really deserving.

Until the government can design benefits systems that aren't so cliff-edged and black and white, I wouldn't trust them to means test pensions. You'll end up with a huge section of people just above the cliff edge who have seen their paying into a work's pension or working extra hours so they could pay their mortgage off before they retired wasted as they now lose stuff other people who didn't bother getting.

you dont have toi sett it cutting close slow you can saet it fairly high and just save the waste to people who really dont need it.

sure you'll be giving it to some people who dont really need it but its stil la saving


edit actually yes i think you're right there theyd **** it up.

 

[Tefal]

Nukes are a national deterrent?

This isn't the 50's any more.

Anybody goes to war (Aside in 3rd world countries) the world will plunge into chaos and go up in a mushroom cloud regardless if the UK had nukes or not.

didn't Russia invade Georgia a few years back?

 

[wordy]

Well no but do they really need their high wages + £300 a day + millions on food and champagne every year, when they are talking about how we need to cut back? No...

'Some of you are in this together' - Gideon Osborne.

 

[Sankari]

TPA is a bunch of libertarian nut jobs, you can't expect them to propose sensible policy. Most of them have no understanding of the real world.

 

[platypus]

I suppose you've never heard the amount of pensioners that choose whether it is heat a room or eat a meal for the day?

Which is where means testing comes in..it's not perfect but often better than nothing.

 

[Freakbro]

But, as it stands, there are already people the wrong side of the line - there are people where the total income from the state isn't enough to stay warm, etc.

Then they wouldn't lose the benefit would they...

 

[dowie]

Wow, what a complete ****. Not really much else to add really. Life is difficult enough for a lot of the older generation without things like this.

life is pretty difficult for people in plenty of generations... and financially tis other generations that are struggling more than pensioners, plenty of whom have fully paid off mortgages etc..

free bus passes, winter fuel allowances etc.. given to all is a waste of money

I'm all for means testing the winter fuel allowance and giving it to people genuinely in need - ditto to the bus passes but for the majority it really isn't needed and is another benefit the state should be withdrawing

 

[dowie]

The problem is with this argument is it is very easy to point out the unfairness of Alan Sugar getting a free TV License and Winter Fuel Allowance but for it to have any effect on the pensions budget the cut off points would be people far less as easy to dismiss as being undeserving. It wouldn't be millionaire pensioners that would car about losing their benefits but those just above the really deserving.

Until the government can design benefits systems that aren't so cliff-edged and black and white, I wouldn't trust them to means test pensions. You'll end up with a huge section of people just above the cliff edge who have seen their paying into a work's pension or working extra hours so they could pay their mortgage off before they retired wasted as they now lose stuff other people who didn't bother getting.

the winter fuel allowance is between 100-300... there is no cliff edge in the first place, it is a small percentage of anyone's pension even if they're on the bare minimum state pension - means testing is fine for this

 

[Schlong&Stable]

Then why compare it to NHS spending? A comparison with overall government spending is also completely pointless.

Why not? The point I was making is that £3bn is a very small sum of money as far as government spending goes. The fact spending on the police is equally low does not refute this point.

 

[CREATIVE!11]

I said it was chump change compared to overall government spending, not specific departmental spending. Obviously I know that £3bn is would be a huge sum to some departments. You don't need to be Burnsy2023 to spot the obvious.

And as I said, if people are so concerned about increasing spending in specific departments, we ought first to look at the massive waste and inefficiencies rather than sacrificing our national detterence.

Failing that, I'd sooner scrap foreign aid than Trident.



What exactly do you base this theory on? If Russia nuked us, there is no guarantee that the US or France would respond. Absolutely none. Treaties don't mean squat when the wholesale extermination of your nation is on the table.

And although I don't think Russia would consider a war with the UK today, who knows where we'll be in ten years time. The EU and NATO might collapse by 2020. Then we'd be wishing we had our nuclear detterence to keep us safe, but we scrapped it so someone with terminal cancer can live long enough for us all to get cancer from Russian warheads.

If anyone nuked anyone that'd be it.

You do realise how big and powerful the warheads are now? the entire world nearly would probably have radioactive material rained down on them.

Edit: Also I didn't know winter fuel allowance was just given to all, so if that's the case I agree it should be cut/reworked (At least to certain people). I mean if I was a millionaire old dude with 3 homes do I really need that allowance?

Not really.

 

[Blackjack Davy]

I agree completely. Why should a retired ex-professional wiith a pension of >£50K receive Government handouts for fuel, bus, TV etc.? This is a very sensible move - depending on what threshold is set for the means-tesing of course...

By the way, for those who are ranting about it like the Government are a lining up poor pensioners to ship them off to labour camps in Siberia, just because the Taxpayer's Alliance says something does not mean that it automatically becomes Government policy.

My own father lives in a place in Spain and still gets winter fuel allowance despite that fact that it rarely gets cold enough to turn the heating on never mind need help with the cost of it. Even he thinks its daft.

But hey lets protect hand outs to all and sundry whether they need or use it, right? When was the last time anyone actually visited a Library never mind borrowed a book?

 

[CREATIVE!11]

My own father lives in a place in Spain and still gets winter fuel allowance despite that fact that it rarely gets cold enough to turn the heating on never mind need help with the cost of it. Even he thinks its daft.

Your dad has the right idea.

Living in spain I mean (assume he's retired).

 

[Schlong&Stable]

If anyone nuked anyone that'd be it.

You do realise how big and powerful the warheads are now? the entire world nearly would probably have radioactive material rained down on them.

Yes, I do. Do you?

The UK has 225 warheads which have a yield up to 100kt.
The largest nuclear weapon ever exploded was 50 megaton
There are 1000 kilotons in a megaton.
So the entire UK arsenal is at most 22.5 megatons.
There was no apocolypse from the explosion of the 50 megaton weapon.
If the UK fired off its entire arsenal of nuclear weapons, there is unlikely to be a global catastrophe.

 

[Roar87]

If anyone nuked anyone that'd be it.

You do realise how big and powerful the warheads are now? the entire world nearly would probably have radioactive material rained down on them.

They have tested these Bombs you know, the world didn't end funnily enough

 

[CREATIVE!11]

Yes, I do. Do you?

The UK has 225 warheads which have a yield up to 100kt.
The largest nuclear weapon ever exploded was 50 megaton
There are 1000 kilotons in a megaton.
So the entire UK arsenal is at most 22.5 megatons.
There was no apocolypse from the explosion of the 50 megaton weapon.
If the UK fired off its entire arsenal of nuclear weapons, there is unlikely to be a global catastrophe.

Either way dude,

You sound a tad bit paranoid. I suggest you stop watching media brainwashing that makes Russia out to be an evil entity.

Seriously, Russia is not going to nuke the UK any time soon....

They have tested these Bombs you know, the world didn't end funnily enough

Hardly the UK though as he was suggesting.