Yep
Cameron's housing plans
- Thread starter robfosters
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Yep
And yet a few decades ago people on modest incomes were able to afford to buy houses in the areas the grew up in.
The amount of people priced out of the market is growing, year on year. You talk as though the situation today has always been the case. It hasn't.
We can move forwards into a future where ever more people are forced to rent, or we can take corrective action.
Well, I suppose it won't be "corrective" in everybody's eyes. Some will be disappointed at losing all that rental income...
Soldato
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It's not about what they deserve but about accepting that if we have a free market it won't be possible for it to serve everyone.
The only way to stop that being the case is to increase the number and types of houses we build as a nation and make those houses a state asset, apart from the free market for the most part. Like how it used to be.
You could go further and introduce legislation to help.
However none of that changes the fact that you do not have to be middle class to buy a house.
It is quite obvious that prices rise due to demand, though investors only make up some of that demand. Sure a foreign buyer doesn't add much aside from injecting some currency and making development more profitable but they're mostly just a factor in central London and controlling them would be useful, BTL investors have some effect too but are also needed.
That wasn't what I was answering to, I don't disagree with you.
It's hard to see through all the sob stories e.g 'I can't afford to buy a house where I have lived all my life whilst I'm on minimum wage'.
Of course it would be nice if everyone could afford a house wherever they want, but that's not real world.
Would be nice if people could be home owners on minimum wage by themselves (and this does happen but is rare) but again, that isn't real world. Why renting/ home sharing exists.
Yes it's not easy saving a deposit and for some it's borderline impossible.
Ultimately some forward planning and not now now now will get you there eventually.
I would disagree with you. It has always been happening. Maybe at a slower rate and not this far out from London.
The aim of society should be that everyone in work and making a positive contribution can afford some sort of comfortable accommodation.
Those that genuinely need help should get it.
The fact that our economy has been allowed to become based upon accommodation costs increasing is a tragedy.
Those that genuinely need help should get it.
The fact that our economy has been allowed to become based upon accommodation costs increasing is a tragedy.
depends how many decades you want to look back, plenty more people used to rent in the past
% of owner occupiers has dipped a bit and it needs 'correcting'? Tis more a perception/entitlement issue than anything else
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Soldato
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Which they do in this country. Just many don't own it.
Not everyone can own a house. Just a fact of life. Did everyone own in the 70's, 80's and 90's? No. It's a utopian dream that is just not realistic or representative of life in general.
depends how many decades you want to look back, plenty more people used to rent in the past
% of owner occupiers has dipped a bit and it needs 'correcting'? Tis more a perception/entitlement issue than anything else
That only tells a small part of the story. Try looking at "rent as a proportion of income" as well.
Or "average household debt as a multiple of income" which is increasing massively.
The fact is that people who can't get on the ladder are being utterly screwed over recently, and those who do are now set up with a lifetime's worth of debt.
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the sharpest increase there was 20 to 30 years ago - it has been just below 25% since the mid 90s for renters and only recently increased to circa 27%
that is largely down to choice and easy availability of credit
they're really not being 'utterly screwed'
Soldato
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Thing that irks me with this renewed right to buy scheme is that the people who are lucky enough to be in a council or housing association house suddenly have a opportunity to buy the house.
Great. Brilliant. So where's my council house then?
Great. Brilliant. So where's my council house then?
For me personally (if i chose the H2B scheme*) is to overpay on mortgage by 10% for first 5 years. Then suck it up into my mortgage after that and the interest starts. If I get my sums right their shouldn't be that much increase in my monthly payments; just 5 years extra on my mortgage.
Obviously a million and one things could happen (like starting a family) which may limit my options of paying the extra 10% and other things.
*I will use the H2B scheme if it means the difference in having a house i love instead of a house I'm 'meh' about.
My plan has always been to get a house that I will not need to move from (i.e. 3 bed). So avoid the added stress of having to move once you start having a family etc. the only time I will move is because I want to move.
That's the ideal plan anyways.
Housing over here is ridiculous and its going to give in at some point. I understand a government can't come in and do a sweeping build of social housing as prices would fall and would leave lots of unhappy votes. However, we cant just keep expecting house prices to rise way beyond inflation. People who say low earners shouldn’t expect to own a home would be a fair enough point, if it weren’t for the fact that rents are extortionate and are more expensive than the monthly mortgage payment for a house of the same size. I now only pay 80% of what my monthly rent payments were by buying a house - and that’s including the buildings insurance and life insurance that comes with house ownership..... I've been very lucky that i can cobble together a deposit with my savings and some inheritance money.
The graph above of rent vs buying is interesting, but keep in mind that now, more than ever, is an advantageous time where housing is viewed as a money making commodity, not a living necessity...which is sickening really when you think about it.
I think the main change needs to be gentle rent controls, i.e. where a landlord can only make 20% profit compared to the monthly costs of that properties mortgage, council tax and building insurance. Perhaps harsher rules could be introduced to organisations that own 10+ homes etc. That'd still mean investing in housing is a worthwhile idea, while preventing mickey taking and huge conglomerates owning all the housing while normal punters get pushed out.
There's probably better / more realistic ideas out there, but i think something like that would at least be a fair step
The graph above of rent vs buying is interesting, but keep in mind that now, more than ever, is an advantageous time where housing is viewed as a money making commodity, not a living necessity...which is sickening really when you think about it.
I think the main change needs to be gentle rent controls, i.e. where a landlord can only make 20% profit compared to the monthly costs of that properties mortgage, council tax and building insurance. Perhaps harsher rules could be introduced to organisations that own 10+ homes etc. That'd still mean investing in housing is a worthwhile idea, while preventing mickey taking and huge conglomerates owning all the housing while normal punters get pushed out.
There's probably better / more realistic ideas out there, but i think something like that would at least be a fair step
This is a perfectly fine statement....if rent weren't more expensive than monthly mortgage, life insurance and building insurance payments combined...
Just because someone can't save, doesn't mean they should get charged more than people who earn more than them....its a completely ridiculous vicious cycle.
I'd agree it's silly that everyone expects to own their own home, i'd like it if we were like european countires where i think renting is more common and sensibile, but then they dont have over inflated rents and greedy land investors affecting things...
Where are you getting your figures from? This:
http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jul/16/tenants-in-england-spend-half-their-pay-on-rent
agrees with other sources I've read.
Across England 43% of income (52% before housing benefit). In London, 60% (70% without benefit) of income. Among 18-24 year olds, 88% of income.
On rent.
Show us your sources.
Just noticed your edit -
I did mention my personal scenario a page or 2 ago. I plan to staircase the loan and pay 50% of it off (approx £35k) in 5 years then pay the balance with the huge amount of equity that I will have accumulated when I upsize at year 6. Also just to note, the htb scheme won't cost the tax payer anything unless the market crashes and never ever recovers....which won't happen.
My worry is the we are heading into an unsustainable housing burst.
Minimum wage is far too common, and is no where near enough to secure a mortgage. At least with things as they stand.
We will never need as many managers etc as general staff, so a good majority will always only ever earn minimum wage.
Pension on minimum wage is negligible.
So what happens when they retire? Not earning enough to pay these high rents. Pensions won't cover it.
Either we cover our with her new social welfare, or introduce some sort of supercarehome?
I earn around £10 an hour after shift allowance, which while not great for what I do (I can get a fair bit more of I got the same job elsewhere) its enough for a 2 bed near work. With say 20k deposit. Hoping to have that by time i am 35, gives me 3 years lol.
Minimum wage is far too common, and is no where near enough to secure a mortgage. At least with things as they stand.
We will never need as many managers etc as general staff, so a good majority will always only ever earn minimum wage.
Pension on minimum wage is negligible.
So what happens when they retire? Not earning enough to pay these high rents. Pensions won't cover it.
Either we cover our with her new social welfare, or introduce some sort of supercarehome?
I earn around £10 an hour after shift allowance, which while not great for what I do (I can get a fair bit more of I got the same job elsewhere) its enough for a 2 bed near work. With say 20k deposit. Hoping to have that by time i am 35, gives me 3 years lol.
Soldato
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Can't afford to buy?.... then move. What we had to do. Near 200 miles in fact, away from my family.
Very affordable where we are. Scraped a deposit together over 4-5 years and then too advantage of the 5% deposit scheme.
Anyone could do it.
Very affordable where we are. Scraped a deposit together over 4-5 years and then too advantage of the 5% deposit scheme.
Anyone could do it.