Alex Salmond: A second Scottish referendum is inevitible

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So you are saying 16 - 55 year olds are unable to form rational viewpoints based on the full range of evidence from all available sources of info. But pensioners who have formed their opinions over their complete lifetime via newspapers and TV news are somehow wise and oracle like!

You must be having a laugh!

No, I'm saying as you get older you get more wise. It is a gradual process. It begins when you are young and finishes when you are old. Reading things on the internet can only get you so far.

There is plenty of evidence that the younger you are the less able you are rationalise consequences - you only need look at the road death statistics for a good example of that.
 
I would argue that younger people are far better informed than older people. The internet sees to that.

The problem with the Internet is the echo chamber effect where people seek out either sources that only reflect their views or they go to diametrically opposed sites to reinforce how right they are.

It should be an excellent source for seeing all angles but isn't used as such by far too many people.
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34526958

Scotland's jobless total increased by 18,000 between June and August to stand at 170,000, according to official figures.
The rise contrasted with a fall of 79,000 in UK unemployment, to 1.7 million, over the same period.
The Scottish jobless rate stands at 6.1%, compared with 5.4% for the whole of the UK.

It totally sucks that the economy in part of the UK is being mis-managed by a bunch of nationalist socialists :( Hope things improve for Scotland soon.
 
[TW]Fox;28683884 said:
No, I'm saying as you get older you get more wise. It is a gradual process. It begins when you are young and finishes when you are old. Reading things on the internet can only get you so far.

There is plenty of evidence that the younger you are the less able you are rationalise consequences - you only need look at the road death statistics for a good example of that.

So what you are basically saying is pensioners are a lot more cautious than younger people.

That still doesn't make up for most pensioners being less informed than the younger generations.

The problem with the Internet is the echo chamber effect where people seek out either sources that only reflect their views or they go to diametrically opposed sites to reinforce how right they are.

It should be an excellent source for seeing all angles but isn't used as such by far too many people.

Sure that happens but you are still being exposed to opposing views versus the unionist controlled medias selective presenting of issues.

For instance, if your only way of learning about current events was via the TV and newspapers, you would think that Michelle Thomson was a convicted criminal. If you have access to the internet you gain the full facts which present a very different picture.
 
Another interesting fact is that a majority of Scottish born people wanted Independence. If the vote was restricted to Scottish born people, YES would have won 53/47.

72% of non Scottish UK born voters voted against Independence. That works out to be approximately 300,000 votes from non Scottish UK born voters.

Why is that an interesting fact unless you're a massive xenophobe?

YER NAE FAE HERE SO YE CANNAE VOTE

If people are resident somewhere they should have a say in what happens to that place, no?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-34526958



It totally sucks that the economy in part of the UK is being mis-managed by a bunch of nationalist socialists :( Hope things improve for Scotland soon.

That is unfortunate. Maybe if we were independent we would be better placed to do something about it. But you have to look on the bright side. At least we have lower unemployment than:

Afghanistan
Albania
Algeria
Angola
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Austria
Bahamas
Barbados
Belgium
Belize
Bolivia
Bosnia and Herzegovina
Botswana
Brazil
Brunei
Bulgaria
Burkina Faso
Burundi
Canada
Cape Verde
Central African Republic
Chad
Chile
Colombia
Comoros
Congo
Costa Rica
Croatia
Cyprus
Djibouti
Dominican Republic
East Timor
Egypt
Equatorial Guinea
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Fiji
Finland
France
Gabon
Gambia
Georgia
Greece
Guyana
Haiti
Hungary
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Italy
Jamaica
Jordan
Kenya
Kosovo
Latvia
Lebanon
Lesotho
Libya
Lithuania
Luxembourg
Macedonia
Malawi
Maldives
Mali
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mongolia
Montenegro
Morocco
Mozambique
Namibia
Netherlands
New Caledonia
Nicaragua
Nigeria
Oman
Palestine
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Puerto Rico
Republic of the Congo
Romania
Sao Tome and Principe
Senegal
Serbia
Slovakia
Slovenia
South Africa
South Sudan
Spain
Sudan
Suriname
Swaziland
Syria
Tanzania
Togo
Tunisia
Turkey
Turkmenistan
Ukraine
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Venezuela
Yemen
Zambia
Zimbabwe

So it's not all bad! :D

If people are resident somewhere they should have a say in what happens to that place, no?

David "I will not dignify those claims with a response" Cameron seems to think not.
 
That still doesn't make up for most pensioners being less informed than the younger generations.

You know that this doesn't become true just because you keep repeating it?

For instance, if your only way of learning about current events was via the TV and newspapers, you would think that Michelle Thomson was a convicted criminal.
Or, if equipped with a brain, you would think that she's a pretty horrible person who profits from the vulnerable and who could be looking at a jail sentence.

And you might also think that the SNP are pretty hopeless hypocrits given that they selected her.

If you have access to the internet you gain the full facts which present a very different picture.

What like Wings Over Bath which selectively picks out some numbers to make out that there was nothing wrong here beyond a conveyancing technicality?

You realise that the Electoral Commission are now investigating the SNP because some of the things that came out during the Michelle Thomson investigation rather suggest that Business For Scotland was a front for the SNP intended to circumvent funding rules.
 
Sure that happens but you are still being exposed to opposing views versus the unionist controlled medias selective presenting of issues.

For instance, if your only way of learning about current events was via the TV and newspapers, you would think that Michelle Thomson was a convicted criminal. If you have access to the internet you gain the full facts which present a very different picture.

Unfortunately you seem to be a good example of the echo chamber effect. You aren't really here to present a case for independence but to argue with those that you consider the enemy. Everything that doesn't match your viewpoint is automatically unionist propaganda. You are no better informed by the Internet, it just reinforces your bias.
 
You know that this doesn't become true just because you keep repeating it?


Or, if equipped with a brain, you would think that she's a pretty horrible person who profits from the vulnerable and who could be looking at a jail sentence.

And you might also think that the SNP are pretty hopeless hypocrits given that they selected her.



What like Wings Over Bath which selectively picks out some numbers to make out that there was nothing wrong here beyond a conveyancing technicality?

You realise that the Electoral Commission are now investigating the SNP because some of the things that came out during the Michelle Thomson investigation rather suggest that Business For Scotland was a front for the SNP intended to circumvent funding rules.

You are clearly an avid consumer of the MSM! :D

I thought the British legal system operated on a innocent until proven guilty basis. Last I heard Michelle Thomson is completely innocent. You wouldn't know that if you watch the TV news or read the newspapers.

The MSM have been caught making up lies regarding this case:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/what-were-told-and-what-we-know/

Choose to read it or remain ignorant. It's up to you.

Unfortunately you seem to be a good example of the echo chamber effect. You aren't really here to present a case for independence but to argue with those that you consider the enemy. Everything that doesn't match your viewpoint is automatically unionist propaganda. You are no better informed by the Internet, it just reinforces your bias.

This whole thread is a massive unionist echo chamber. Na na na na naH!!!
 
Well you are a minority on here!



No grudge. Just a desire to be free from Westminster rule.

I still don't understand why you waste so much time arguing about it on an overclocking forum, seems your efforts could be much more productive elsewhere. Or you could just be a troll who loves the attention.
 
You are clearly an avid consumer of the MSM! :D
Ha! Is this the part where I go "baa baa"?

There's a pile of drivel in the media, but not nearly so much as there is on some of the nat outlets (and you have picked a fine example).

I thought the British legal system operated on a innocent until proven guilty basis. Last I heard Michelle Thomson is completely innocent. You wouldn't know that if you watch the TV news or read the newspapers.
What she has done is morally reprehensible. If this had been a Tory then the SNP would be all over her. But somehow it is different when it is one of their own. She quite possibly has committed an offence, but the scandal is how the SNP can say one thing while doing another.


The MSM have been caught making up lies regarding this case:

http://wingsoverscotland.com/what-were-told-and-what-we-know/

Choose to read it or remain ignorant. It's up to you.
I have read it. It's a pile of ****e.

The MSM may sensationalist things, but the eejit in Bath is selectively picking information and ignoring huge amounts of the judgement that is in the public domain. You know, the investigation and formal hearing that kicked this off (not the media representation of it). He's basically saying "if you don't read the bad bits, it looks OK".
 
What she has done is morally reprehensible.

What exactly has she done that is morally reprehensible?

I have read it. It's a pile of ****e.

Are you saying that the papers haven't made up lies regarding this case?

The MSM may sensationalist things,

Ah so there are not lies. The papers are being sensational. So by that logic you are saying that the papers are exaggerating things and definitley not making things up! :D

but the eejit in Bath is selectively picking information and ignoring huge amounts of the judgement that is in the public domain

Oh so there is a judgement out in the public domain stating that Michelle Thomson is guilty of a crime is there? Please let me have a link to it! :D

Mr grumpy here is proving my point wonderfully! As I said, reading the MSM or watching the news you would think Michelle Thomson had actually been found guilty of something. Mr Grumpy has bought into it hook line and sinker. Vilifying Michelle Thomson based only on what he has heard from the MSM.

This is the exact same thing I am getting at in regard to old people and their reliance on traditional media. They form similar opinions as Mr Grumpy based on the limited information they are drip fed by the media. You will never get to hear the other side of the story as was presented on Wings if you don't have access to the internet.

The end result. Old man says to his Wife, "what a terrible crook that Michelle Thomson is. Taking advantage of poor vulnerable people. I won't be voting SNP!

When the reality of the situation is that (as far as I am aware) the police aren't even investigating her!
 
What exactly has she done that is morally reprehensible?
Personally, I find the idea of misleading people over the value of their homes and using their circumstances to pressure them to buy at knock down prices so that you can flip for a mighty profit reprehensible. Others might call it capitalism.

That much doesn't seem to be up for debate - most of it is on her website. (Is her website part of the unionist controlled MSM?)

Oh so there is a judgement out in the public domain stating that Michelle Thomson is guilty of a crime is there? Please let me have a link to it! :D

There is a judgement out there in the public domain. You know, the bit about her solicitor being struck off over these deals?

You should try reading more than just Wings.

You will never get to hear the other side of the story as was presented on Wings if you don't have access to the internet.

Damn. If only I had access to the internet.

I've already highlighted that the Wings analysis is rather selective in the information that it uses, so the case presented is that of a conveyancing "quirk". I've also explained that more detail is available from the source (Law Society Of Scotland) yet you seem reluctant to go and read it.

Or is the Law Society also part of the unionist controlled MSM?

Vilifying Michelle Thomson based only on what he has heard from the MSM.

The Wings selective reading issue seems to have spread. The MSM broke the news, but there is plenty more there if you go looking. Sadly you are too busy with your blood and soil politics of hate to actually find out what is going on.
 
There is a judgement out there in the public domain. You know, the bit about her solicitor being struck off over these deals?

I am fully aware of her solicitor being struck off. The police are not even investigating her.

I've already highlighted that the Wings analysis is rather selective in the information that it uses, so the case presented is that of a conveyancing "quirk".

What are you talking about? You obviously have not read the article.

That Wings article is only about exposing the lies the MSM have been pedaling regarding the amounts paid and the dates of the transactions. It isn't defending Michelle Thomson in any way. Purely highlighting the MSM's agenda.

How embarrassing for you!

I was using it to prove my point that older people form their opinions based on what they read in the press even though more often than not, it is actually wrong. You have also proved that some people are not even prepared to read the other side of the story. Yet I am the zealot! :D
 
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