US white supremacist sentenced to death
- Thread starter dirtychinchilla
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Are the people murdering this man any less evil?
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I don't think this man deserves the death penalty, despite being racist.
Man of Honour
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I don't support the death penalty for anyone, regardless of their crime, despite the fact I find his views completely abhorrent.
Soldato
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It's not retribution when the state does it.
Also, who said civilized people don't commit acts of retribution? Murder, rape and treason have been regarded as morally wrong since we first civilized. The death penalty has only very recently become morally wrong in the West. There isn't really any great depth of history to that injunction, so the firmness of your words is bizarre.
Good riddance, let him dance the hemp fandango!
He's not being executed for racism, so the point is moot.
He's not being executed for racism, so the point is moot.
Man of Honour
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My POV is simple. If you have a death penalty you will always kill innocent people.
I'm highly unlikely to murder someone, so the death penalty doesn't really affect me, until I get caught up in a miscarriage of justice and am murdered by the state. That clearly does affect me - and many other people.
Man of Honour
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Of course it is, what else would it be?
There is only one murderer in this case and you know who that is.
As I covered in my first response to this thread, it is the murder, attempted murder, assault and weapons charges that he is being punished for. It's not his racism, however abhorrent that is.
Your opinion on him not being deserving of the death penalty is, I am guessing, derived from the fact that you don't believe anyone to be deserving of it. Is that the case?
so what do we do , spend 100000's to house these people for the rest of their lives.. costs must run in to many many millions per person ?
(im not saying im for the death penalty, im just not sure what the alternative is)
Man of Honour
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Sentencing people to death is more expensive and getting more expensive all the time.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/...-the-death-penalty-is-becoming-more-expensive
Actually, the death penalty in this case is because of his racism. It is not because he is racist. Anyone can be racist, and that is protected under the 1st Amendment. It is not a crime to think, believe or even preach, racism, or gay hatred, etc. I could, for instance, hate anyone I want for any reason I want. But acting on it? That's different. Committing crimes with that as motivation elevates the status of the crimes, and that, having been convicted, changes the sentencing options.
The legal principle is a very old one. It is that the punishment ought to be according to the severity of the crimes. In the case of hate crime, be it race, gender, religion, nationality, gender identity, etc, the logic is that it is not just a crime against the specific victim, but against society as a whole. It is, if you like, an early form of terrorism. The the burnings of the KKK as an example - it wasn't just a crime against the poor it on the cross, but a crime of intimidation, hatred, violence against his entire race, designed to cause fear.
An 18th Century British legal scholar put it quite well .... ""it is but reasonable that among crimes of different natures those should be most severely punished, which are the most destructive of the public safety and happiness."
His convictions were for first degree murder, etc. But, having been convicted, because his crimes were racially motivated, he has been deemed "qualified" for hate-crime sentence enhancement.
Consider this.
It's not very often that a murder or even a nasty assault, of, say, a black man, causes a riot, if that violence took place as part of a robbery. But if the violence took place, or even was believed to have taken place, simply because he was black, for racist reasons, well then you have a societal powder keg. Examples would include the South Central LA riots after the Todney King beating, and the recent London riot.
Hate crimes, because of their motivation, are not just an attack on the individual but also a fundamental attack on the very cohesion of society, and specifically on every other individual sharing whatever mode of identity (race, gender identification, whatever) the victim had. And, where race, gender id etc, are the motivation then but for the irrational hatred of that characteristic in the victim, there would have been no crime.
Whether people in this thread are pro or anti the death penalty is really a separate issue. The sentence enhancement for hate crime doesn't have to be death, unless of course, the system has already painted itself into a corner by having the maximum penalty short of that already having been applied to multiple murders, without that enhancement. The enhancement could be, for instance, an extra 10 or 20 years on the sentence, but if the typical sentence for multiple murders was already life without parole, it's meaningless.
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Makes much more sense to stick them all into a film studio and have them fight their way out against "The Gladiators" (tooled up Gladiators) for survival.
It would make for epic Saturday night viewing. I would certainly watch it over X-Factor.
It would also serve as a deterrent for killing people.
Win win right?
It would make for epic Saturday night viewing. I would certainly watch it over X-Factor.
It would also serve as a deterrent for killing people.
Win win right?
Soldato
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I think thats a fair point, however that's why they have the appeal procedure.
You could just as likely spend your entire life in prison on multiple life sentences for example, if your appeals failed. Yes you are alive but its no real 'life' is it.
All in all I don't think the white supremacist angle has any effect on the sentencing, the murder of three people does.
Their appeals process is so long and convoluted, if he attempts to fight the sentencing he will die of natural causes long before the state takes his life.
