ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

The mental gymnastics and word games of the closet apologists desperately trying to disassociate ISIS and all things Islamic terrorism from Islam is hilarious. :D

Hurr Islamic terrorists have no religion and obviously aren't motivated by it! Ok LOL
 
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Got to love facebook. Already seen a few comments that Paris was a false flag op by the CIA and that we are all sheeple for thinking otherwise :D

People, they're great.
 
dowie said:
you don't want to believe that but it isn't the case a lot of the time, it is just sticking your head in the sand - if they believe in a fundamentalist interpretation it can quite clearly be rational to carry out attacks - sure there is going to be encouragement/reinforcement from others sharing those fundamentalist beliefs too
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My point was that I don't doubt that their reading of Islam plays a part, but as your last source suggests I think "social and situational" pressures play as big, if not bigger, a role in enabling this sort of decision. Those are emotional rather than rational influences. I don't think they are all mentally ill or similar by any means.

I'm prepared to be corrected on this, but I can't think of many suicide bombers who have acted alone. They all come from terrorist groups or smaller cells where a group environment and peer pressure makes suicide bombing seem like a legitimate choice. No-one sits down and studies the Quran for 20 years and comes to the reasoned conclusion that they're going to strap on a suicide vest. It needs a lot of external pressure for that to happen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lone_wolf_(terrorism) seems to suggest that the majority of solo attacks are shootings or similar.

Since this and my other posts will get seized on by the less nuanced posters of the forum that I am in anyway an apologist, that could not be further from the truth. The point I'm making is that political and social issues are equally responsible for creating terrorism and those are the ones we can actually do something about. We can't do anything about Islam because "derp derp nuke the middle east derp" is not an answer to anything (apart from "what is the most pointless post made on the forum this week?").
 
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zoomee said:
There are 1.6 Billion muslims on this planet - IF Islam was actually as bad as what some people here make out, none of us would be here now.
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this is what is referred to as a straw man

no one has claimed that all 1.6 billion Muslims are fundamentalists

a significant minority of them are - but of those fundamentalists only a much smaller portion will actually be prepared to carry out attacks... the fundamentalist beliefs are an issue though as there remains that potential for someone with fundamentalist beliefs to become violent and someone with moderate beliefs to become radicalised and turn to fundamentalist beliefs
 
zoomee said:
Take for example this terrorist threat that was foiled - no mention in mainstream media here because there's no muslamics involved I'm guessing:
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you guessed wrong, it was reported...
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap...her-man-charged-church-attack-plot-court.html

and really they mainly planned to rob a jewellers, and then hide out in the boonies to wait for some impending race war

That's why its plain to see that even though Islamic terrorism makes up less than 5% of attacks in the US and less than 1% in europe - people still feel like its the biggest threat out there.
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Oh FFS Zoomee, why do you keep posting the same BS when you get called on it every single time :rolleyes:
Most planned attacks by muslims have been foiled, that does not mean they don't exist.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States#Failed_attacks

IF Islam was actually as bad as what some people here make out, none of us would be here now.
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129 people aren't,
give Islam time, it will kill us all eventually.
 
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One More Solo said:
My point was that I don't doubt that their reading of Islam plays a part, but as your last source suggests I think "social and situational" pressures play as big, if not bigger, a role in enabling this sort of decision. Those are emotional rather than rational influences. I don't think they are all mentally ill or similar by any means.
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Their reading/understanding of Islam plays a part but most people who are muslims are muslims because they've been born into it... there are also converts but they're going to attend mosques, socialise with muslims... the idea of someone simply reading a book in isolation is rather bizarre. Of course there can be various external influences towards taking up a particular interpretation of Islam - that applies to both moderates and fundamentalists. The point in dispute was the idea that they're not rational - they can be completely rational within the framework of a fundamentalist belief system
 
SciNeT said:
The mental gymnastics and word games of the closet apologists desperately trying to disassociate ISIS and all things Islamic terrorism from Islam is hilarious. :D

Hurr Islamic terrorists have no religion and obviously aren't motivated by it! Ok LOL
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I think there's a medieval bridge here somewhere :p Who may those mental gymnasts be? I think analysis and being apologetic are two different things.
 
NickK said:
Where as religious leaders of sects discuss and explain what the wording means as a form of governance - that is interpretation.
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Islam's idea of (and qualification for) a religious "scholar", is someone who has memorised and can recite at will the entirety of the Qur'an.

That's it, no "I wonder what this means" or "this could be interpreted as"
- just repeat it parrot fashion as the literal truth handed down from God.
 
bitslice said:
Islam's idea of (and qualification for) a religious "scholar", is someone who has memorised and can recite at will the entirety of the Qur'an.

That's it, no "I wonder what this means" or "this could be interpreted as"
- just repeat it parrot fashion as the literal truth handed down from God.
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lol just goes to show how much you know about Islam bitslice. Still trying to spout your hatred on this forum I see - was it not good enough you and a couple of others here managed to get the Paris thread closed?

THAT is not a pre-requisit to being a scholar of Islam. A scholar of Islam is referred to as an Alim (Learned one) - so one can actually be a scholar without having memorised any of the qu'ran.

 
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From Twitter:

Mark Easton ‏@BBCMarkEaston · 41m41 minutes ago  Tottenham, London
Advice on what to do in a Paris-style terror attack just published by @GOVUK
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/developing-dynamic-lockdown-procedures …

Run
 Escape if you can.
 Consider the safest options.
 Is there a safe route? RUN if not HIDE.
 Can you get there without exposing yourself to greater danger?
 Insist others leave with you.
 Leave belongings behind.
Hide
 If you can’t RUN, HIDE.
 Find cover from gunfire.
 If you can see the attacker, they may be able to see you.
 Cover from view does not mean you are safe, bullets go through glass, brick, wood and metal.
 Find cover from gunfire e.g. substantial brickwork / heavy reinforced walls.
 Be aware of your exits.
 Try not to get trapped.
 Be quiet, silence your phone.
 Lock / barricade yourself in.
 Move away from the door.
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Read, digest and keep fingers crossed.
 
enkoda said:
Which, strictly speaking, is against the word of God. See, it's not easy is it?;)
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People use a book to justify their beliefs, so it doesn't really after what the "word" really is. Doesn't matter if you are Muslim, Christian, atheist or whatever. Don't blame the words, blame the person that reads it.

Fundimentalists (of all religions) will pick out the bits that agree with their beliefs, the rest will pick out the bits that agree with them.

Take away religion and people will use another "book" to justify their actions and try and persuade people they are "right" and others are "wrong".
 
It's pathetic how every thread we have on sensitive subjects here nowadays always ends up getting personal.
Please try avoid that from now on.
 
dowie said:
better than sticking your head in the sand and saying:

'this is nothing to do with Islam, it is the religion of peace and tolerance'

when actually they've got as much claim to be 'Muslim' as anyone else whether moderate or fundamentalist
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If they are the only 2 options you see then it isn't who you think that has their head in the sand.
either way supporting ISIS isnt the better choice.
 
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