ISIL, ISIS, Daesh discussion thread.

dowie · 19 Nov 2015 at 14:17

For example the leader of the plot was previously in Syria, already had a terrorism conviction and was a wanted man... he managed to slip back into the EU. The fact he holds a Belgium passport isn't all that relevant. Stopping fighters from being able to sneak back in is rather useful.

Rroff · 19 Nov 2015 at 14:31

Ooof the video from the Paris attacks of the women who one of the terrorists held his gun right over and tried to shoot her in the top of the head and it jammed and then he left... can't even begin to imagine the psychological impact of that.

mid_gen · 19 Nov 2015 at 14:42

dowie said:
For example the leader of the plot was previously in Syria, already had a terrorism conviction and was a wanted man... he managed to slip back into the EU. The fact he holds a Belgium passport isn't all that relevant. Stopping fighters from being able to sneak back in is rather useful.

How do you propose to do that?

ThestigGT999 · 19 Nov 2015 at 14:43

Terminal_Boy · 19 Nov 2015 at 14:45

Never has the phrase "Better the Devil you know" been more apt.

Dis86 · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:04

Yet more lies from stig there. The United States didn't kill 150,000 Iraqis. The vast vast majority of those deaths were by other Iraqis.
At least be honest if you're gonna try and make a point like that.

RedDanDoc · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:06

Dis86 said:
Yet more lies from stig there. The United States didn't kill 150,000 Iraqis. The vast vast majority of those deaths were by other Iraqis.
At least be honest if you're gonna try and make a point like that.

Could it be argued that US ineptitude led to 150,000 Iraqi deaths?

Rroff · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:11

Dis86 said:
Yet more lies from stig there. The United States didn't kill 150,000 Iraqis. The vast vast majority of those deaths were by other Iraqis.
At least be honest if you're gonna try and make a point like that.

ISIS didn't exist then either it was largely born in the conditions that came after.

ThestigGT999 · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:15

Bush On Al Qaeda Not Existing In Iraq Before Invasion: ‘So What?’

The Funktopus · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:15

It would seem Abdelhamid Abaaoud was killed yesterday in St Denis. Hope it wasn't quick.

One More Solo · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:38

Tunney said:
Strong, wise words from Obama. It must be so frustrating for him, being surrounded by so many loud-mouthed idiots.

Indeed, wise words. I'm always interested and open to the ideas put forward by both sides, but the rhetoric of fear around the right at the moment is ridiculous and disproportionate to the actual threat we face. I accept that people will disagree with that so please don't waste a post on it - it goes without staying that is my opinion.

John40 · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:39

Alex Salmond has today said if France invokes article 5 other NATO countries should take no notice as it was never intended to be used for terrorism.

He also said France saying it is at war is an unfortunate use of words.

Rilot · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:43

Aren't they bound by NATO convention to take notice though? I didn't think you could just ignore things like this.

McGray · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:45

You can (and should) ignore Alex Slamond though.

Curio · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:54

kitch9 said:
I don't think it was for collateral damage reasons, they just needed to know that they had their man. The Pakistan authorities couldn't be trusted to provide them with that info hence they effectively invaded the country instead.

That's true as well. However, it's also the case that dropping a bomb and killing Pakistani civilians would be much more of a headache than sending in a small force and taking out Bin Laden with the minimum of "fuss".

Woden · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:55

So Salmons wants independent Scotland to be in the EU and NATO, but without the responsibilities?

NickK · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:57

Seems that asia connections are slow atm...

Terminal_Boy · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:58

Woden said:
So Salmons wants independent Scotland to be in the EU and NATO, but without the responsibilities?

Yes. He wants his cake, our cake, your cake and someone else to defend his cake at their expense.

Curio · 19 Nov 2015 at 15:59

ThestigGT999 said:

Erm, we know he had weapons of mass destruction because (a) we gave them to him and (b) he used them to kill thousands of Kurds and Iranians.

I understand the point of the image, but the fact Iraq had WMD and the willingness to use them is undeniable.

John40 · 19 Nov 2015 at 16:01

Curio said:
Erm, we know he had weapons of mass destruction because (a) we gave them to him and (b) he used them to kill thousands of Kurds and Iranians.

I understand the point of the image, but the fact Iraq had WMD and the willingness to use them is undeniable.

Nobody surely would say he never had them it was just that nobody could find them.

Had them and used them is correct.