The Autumn Spending Review

[Caged]

No, but there's a bit more to it than just what you said.

Just a question to the masses; shouldn't this be in the Speaker's Corner, being a pretty controversial thing to be talking about?

I'd like to hope that in SC people would get hauled up on posting unsubstantiated claims and the thread would move a bit slower. So moving this in there is probably the wrong way to go.

My prediction for the spending review is that there will be loads of cuts to stuff that plebs make use of, but suddenly a huge amount of money will be found to pour into a bottomless IT project pit revolving around counter-terrorism.

 

[Danthus]

I certainly don't agree with everything this government is doing economically, however we are certainly on the right road. Certain things, EG defence, were cut too far in 2010 which the governement are now having to invest back in, however the debt pile that Labour gave us could have eventually ruined the economy.

The debt is higher now than under Labour.

Far better than some of Labour's terifically wasteful projects and policies of rewarding people for not working.

it could be said the Conservative policy of cuts to Tax Credits is punishing those who work.

 

[Emlyn_Dewar]

Lets just be thankful that we're increasing our order of god awful F35s, because the country just couldn't operate without those (in 2023)...

 

[Danthus]

French planes have been patrolling our waters because the Nimrod was axed.

 

[DR_Pingu]

I'd like to hope that in SC people would get hauled up on posting unsubstantiated claims and the thread would move a bit slower. So moving this in there is probably the wrong way to go.

My prediction for the spending review is that there will be loads of cuts to stuff that plebs make use of, but suddenly a huge amount of money will be found to pour into a bottomless IT project pit revolving around counter-terrorism.

Fair enough on the first point, I'm not a dweller of SC enough to see how people are there

Yeah, I don't understand it myself, as well as the so-say £1.9Bn over the next 4-5 years to hire what, 1,900 'spies' to help out.

Personally I think local councils need to sort their nonsense out too. I've never heard of more than one which actually does what their local residents are actually happy with. Would be a start on the small-scale, which could help improve on the larger one.

 

[Over Clocker]

Again, that doesn't mean that public waste was the main cause. I'm not defending it and think that regardless of who's implementing a cut, it's the right way to go.

The state economy isn't like a family's budget. Debt for a country is actually okay and helps to produce growth.

However, the Tories have gone too far. As evidenced by the recent backlash of the Oxfordshire county council's reply to Cameron when he complained over cuts.

Yes I know, but the level of debt needs to be proportionate to vast number of things which essentially dictate whether a country's economy can support such levels of debt.

You only have to look at Ireland, Spain, Greece etc to see how quickly things can turn once the balance is tipped.

As I said, I agree that some cuts went too far and in the wrong places, however no one is going to get everything right. We really need to cut vast amounts from the overall social security budget, however we live in a country and society where the state looks after you, so that is not going to happen to the degree that is needed.

It would be naive of anyone to argue that deficit reduction is not the right path right now. To what degree it is reduced however, we could argue about forever.

 

[DR_Pingu]

it could be said the Conservative policy of cuts to Tax Credits is punishing those who work.

Blame the terrorefugees comin overe her an takin all are jobz!!1!

 

[Nix]

It would be naive of anyone to argue that deficit reduction is not the right path right now. To what degree it is reduced however, we could argue about forever.

Deficit reduction is needed.

Deficit reduction on the scale and tempo which Osborne is pushing it not. It only slows recovery in the long term.

There are strong arguments for methods such as quantitative easing for example. There is more than one road leading to Rome.

 

[DR_Pingu]

Lets just be thankful that we're increasing our order of god awful F35s, because the country just couldn't operate without those (in 2023)...

At least we've not spent as much as the Americans in the R&D of the bloody things! Over $1Tn and counting...

 

[Danthus]

Is there anything wrong with having a defence partnership with France?

No, but this is a direct result to budget cuts, we no longer have a capability to do it ourselves even though at the time, 2010, warnings were given.

 

[Over Clocker]

The debt is higher now than under Labour.

it could be said the Conservative policy of cuts to Tax Credits is punishing those who work.

Yes, and..????

Everyone knew that debt would rise, I don't see your point? Debt will rise until there is a budget surplus. That is not the issue. Levels of deficit is the issue.

Do you understand the difference between deficit and debt? It doesn't really matter how much debt the country has (to a degree). We're a very rich nation and can afford to service said debt.

What matters is how much that debt is rising.

Mal

 

[Raptor]

It would be naive of anyone to argue that deficit reduction is not the right path right now. To what degree it is reduced however, we could argue about forever.

Spot on IMO.

 

[Over Clocker]

French planes have been patrolling our waters because the Nimrod was axed.

And a Royal Navy destroyer is providing air defence capabilities to the French aircraft carrier...

Also, it's wideley reported that one of the mainstays if the 2015 SDSR will be the re-introduction of a maritime patrol aircraft. It's widely knows axing it in 2010 was the wrong decision (although Nimrod was perhaps not the best continual investment).

 

[Caged]

We really need to cut vast amounts from the overall social security budget, however we live in a country and society where the state looks after you, so that is not going to happen to the degree that is needed.

What's wrong with being looked after by the state if circumstances dictate that you are unable to do so? That's something to aspire to and admire, not see as a negative.

If you feel that welfare spending is too high then why can't we seek to improve our GDP so it looks smaller, rather than sitting around wondering why we're all so unproductive and having to leave our worst-off even worse off?

 

[V F]

Again, that doesn't mean that public waste was the main cause. I'm not defending it and think that regardless of who's implementing a cut, it's the right way to go.

The state economy isn't like a family's budget. Debt for a country is actually okay and helps to produce growth.

However, the Tories have gone too far. As evidenced by the recent backlash of the Oxfordshire county council's reply to Cameron when he complained over cuts.

So that is why Osborne is hell bent on a surplus? Doesn't care how he achieves it but as long as he gets it.

Yes I know, but the level of debt needs to be proportionate to vast number of things which essentially dictate whether a country's economy can support such levels of debt.

You only have to look at Ireland, Spain, Greece etc to see how quickly things can turn once the balance is tipped.

As I said, I agree that some cuts went too far and in the wrong places, however no one is going to get everything right. We really need to cut vast amounts from the overall social security budget, however we live in a country and society where the state looks after you, so that is not going to happen to the degree that is needed.

It would be naive of anyone to argue that deficit reduction is not the right path right now. To what degree it is reduced however, we could argue about forever.

As of right now? How come so many people wouldn't agree on that...

 

[Over Clocker]

What's wrong with being looked after by the state if circumstances dictate that you are unable to do so? That's something to aspire to and admire, not see as a negative.

If you feel that welfare spending is too high then why can't we seek to improve our GDP so it looks smaller, rather than sitting around wondering why we're all so unproductive and having to leave our worst-off even worse off?

I didn't say it was a negative

However, there is a MASSIVE difference between having a safety net (if circumstances dictate that you are unable to look after yourself/family), and being too bone idle to work because the state will pay you to sit at home, as was the case under Labour.

On your 2nd point, isn't that exactly what is happening?! GDP is rising, and for a number of reasons. Government policies on things such as lower corporation tax really help people like me who runs an SME employing 10-15 people. We've been able to grow, employ more staff, and put more back into the economy due to higher profits.

UK productivity and output per hour etc etc are all rising very well.

 

[Over Clocker]

...................



As of right now? How come so many people wouldn't agree on that...

Go to nearly any other developed country with a similar tax structure (eg not Scandinavia) and see what happens to you if you get ill without insurence, or are unemployed.

Many people disagree because many people do not know what happens elsewhere..

 

[V F]

Yes, and..????

Everyone knew that debt would rise, I don't see your point? Debt will rise until there is a budget surplus. That is not the issue. Levels of deficit is the issue.

Do you understand the difference between deficit and debt? It doesn't really matter how much debt the country has (to a degree). We're a very rich nation and can afford to service said debt.

What matters is how much that debt is rising.

Mal

How about all that PFI for all those new schools and hospitals?

https://youtu.be/kPN1JCpmOgE?t=2890

 

[Over Clocker]

How about all that PFI for all those new schools and hospitals?

https://youtu.be/kPN1JCpmOgE?t=2890

PFI was a disastrous waste of public money brought about by Labour governments, which we're paying the price for.

Yes, we got new schools and hospitals, but at what price?

Sorry, do not know the point you are trying to make?

 

[Caged]

I didn't say it was a negative

However, there is a MASSIVE difference between having a safety net (if circumstances dictate that you are unable to look after yourself/family), and being too bone idle to work because the state will pay you to sit at home, as was the case under Labour.

On your 2nd point, isn't that exactly what is happening?! GDP is rising, and for a number of reasons. Government policies on things such as lower corporation tax really help people like me who runs an SME employing 10-15 people. We've been able to grow, employ more staff, and put more back into the economy due to higher profits.

UK productivity and output per hour etc etc are all rising very well.

The problem is that it's impossible to provide a safety net without it being open to abuse since we're in a developed country and the idea of leaving people to starve or go without a home is (or should be) unpalatable. You just need to hope that the people who take the mick are statistically small - and despite the Daily Mail dragging out a family of 20 living off the state, that tends to be the case.

On the point of you running an SME, your job is to make as much money as possible and if you employ people as anything other than a last resort due to increased customer demand, or a desire to go into a new area (in search of increased profits) then you're doing it wrong. The same with putting back into the economy - that should be a side-effect and not a target. I don't blame you for any of that stuff as it's the system you have to work with, but it's very easy for company directors to claim that they are the providers of employment, when in fact it's ultimately the consumers of the goods or services that provide the demand which drives everything else. If the demand exists and you aren't employing more staff to meet it, that job still gets created - it just happens at one of your competitors.

On the point of increased productivity, my understanding was that a large amount of cash was encouraged to be lent by banks to companies such as yours with the idea of investment in newer technologies to improve that, but the cash never really materialised. Unfortunately a lot of SMEs see efficiency meaning "spend as little as possible", which is almost the worst thing you could do, and as a result the productivity figures look terrible.