Cumbria flooding

[Qjumper]

Personally whilst I feel gutted for the people flooded out, why are we expecting the government to pay to fix peoples homes. That's what house insurance is for isn't it.

For those without insurance again gutted for you but wth... Living on a flood plain or nr a river and no insurance. Guess a few Saturday nights on the raz is more important for some. Bad choice.

Government cash should be concentrated on getting infrastructure, schools , hospitals back up and running, not replacing PS4's.

 

[joeyjojo]

Indeed, but you know SPG probably meant something like "extreme weather events are becoming more likely due to climate change".

After the 2013/14 floods some modelling experiments (of the South of England) found that what were previously 1-in-100-year events (1% chance) are now 1-in-80-year events (1.25% chance).

http://www.climateprediction.net/weatherathome/weatherhome-2014/results/

 

[FloppyPoppy]

While its an excellent selling point, it'll probably last a couple of years at best and is thus completely impractical over what we have now.

This it's structural integrity is also absolutely abysmal.

 

[scorza]

For those interested the Daily Mail are organising a collection for people affected by the flooding (details here), the Chancellor has pledged to match it pound for pound. I'll probably donate later.

 

[wnb]

Personally whilst I feel gutted for the people flooded out, why are we expecting the government to pay to fix peoples homes. That's what house insurance is for isn't it.

For those without insurance again gutted for you but wth... Living on a flood plain or nr a river and no insurance. Guess a few Saturday nights on the raz is more important for some. Bad choice.

Government cash should be concentrated on getting infrastructure, schools , hospitals back up and running, not replacing PS4's.

That would be the governments and local authorities that gave builders permission to build on flood plains. The flood in Carlisle back in 2005 was supposed to be once in 200 year event. The 5k per house will not cover the tradesman fees.

I was speaking someone one who was flooded and he did not have insurance. He said that after 2005 his insurance went up from £400 to £3800 which he can not afford.

The local authority gave tesco and Saintsbury's planning permission to build on flood plains and both stores were flooded.

 

[Qjumper]

So the local authority gave permission for TESCO etc to build on a flood plain. Did these stores not bother with Flood Risk Assessments etc. Why is it the local authorities problem, did they chose the site for the supermarkets?

As I said I feel sorry for the people flooded out and the impact it has on their quality of life, I cannot see the situation changing. Flood waters like that are not easily held back and if the EA say to a community we want to build some big concrete barriers to stop flood waters, the usual outcry is 'Hell no you ain't building those eyesores in my back yard..'

Especially gutted for those hit for the second time in a matter of weeks.

 

[mid_gen]

That's an absolute joke to be honest.

It could potentially ruin the rest of your life with debt or life savings being wiped out.

Insurance companies aren't charities. The premium reflects the risk and size of payout.

Don't buy houses in areas at risk of flooding. If you do, accept that it will flood sometimes and you are either going to have to pay a huge insurance premium, or pay for it yourself.

As it happens I was back in the UK on the weekend and had a family get together in Cumbria, we were just outside Bowness, got trapped for two days, had to wade waste-deep to get out....fun times.

 

[Werewolf]

For those without insurance again gutted for you but wth... Living on a flood plain or nr a river and no insurance. Guess a few Saturday nights on the raz is more important for some. Bad choice.
.

A few nights on the town?

For a lot of the people that couldn't afford insurance it would likely have been a large part of their yearly income, probably more than their food budget.

£3k+ is not a few nights on the town, it's a huge chunk of the average income, let alone the income of low earners (who are least likely to be able to afford to just move away from an at risk area and if need be travel a much longer distance to work).

 

[noj]

insured or not, rich or poor etc none of it really matters to those people right now.

The reality is that just before Christmas a lot of people have been affected by this and for them it sucks. For most of us we're perfectly fine sat in our offices, houses etc warm dry and without the worry that these people have.

Spare a thought for them. They're people, same as you and I.

Some great stories coming out from organisations and individuals helping out where they can.

 

[Orionaut]

And what happens when its rainwater with, y'know, stuff in?

Or a carpark with leaf debris in the water

Or floodwater with a high content of mud and other solids

Or any natural water other than clean tapwater with 0% debris.

While its an excellent selling point, it'll probably last a couple of years at best and is thus completely impractical over what we have now.

And what happens when it is frosty?

We had some of this installed on a DC near where I live, Drizzle + Frost = Black Ice Magnet!

 

[Greebo]

Insurance companies aren't charities. The premium reflects the risk and size of payout.

Don't buy houses in areas at risk of flooding. If you do, accept that it will flood sometimes and you are either going to have to pay a huge insurance premium, or pay for it yourself.

As it happens I was back in the UK on the weekend and had a family get together in Cumbria, we were just outside Bowness, got trapped for two days, had to wade waste-deep to get out....fun times.

Problem is we get told this is a 1 in 100 freak event but after the first time, the insurance companies increase premiums from £500 to £3,500 per annum. That surely means that to them it isn't a 1 in 100 event as they now want £350k for 100 years coverage. But the EA insist that it still is so hence won;t do anything more about protecting properties.

It's either one or the other. Either its a 1 in 10 year event in which case the insurance companies premium are about right but then the EA should be spending millions more on the basis this is going to occur every 10 years.

But every time we have this all we seem to get is "but its a freak of nature and a once in a lifetime event, unprecedented, all records broken" when those same things were said a few years ago when it last happened.

What bugs me about where my car got flooded is that there is a massive culvert to take flood water away which myself and some other farmers unblocked the next day and the water dropped a foot every half an hour (had stopped raining by then)

It still would have flooded but wouldn't have been anything like as bad but there used to be a conrtactor paid each year who went around with a digger keeping the gulleys and drains clear but was stopped due to funding cut backs.

Same with dykes in farmers fields. They used to get paid to keep them clear and open but they are now just full of silt and weeds so all that water from farmers fields just run onto to the roads now.

 

[Glaucus]

It wont be 1:100 for two main reason, poor planning and climate change.

 

[Greebo]

It wont be 1:100 for two main reason, poor planning and climate change.

EA spokeperson on radio 4 yesterday was still saying 1 in 100 and cumbria was just a one off freak which broke all records so all their flood defences they built since the last "freak" occurrence was never designed to cope with a record breaking downfall like we had.

But then if you are going to the trouble of building flood defences, isn't there an argument to build them to cope with slightly more than the previous record?

 

[Haggisman]

Personally whilst I feel gutted for the people flooded out, why are we expecting the government to pay to fix peoples homes. That's what house insurance is for isn't it.

For those without insurance again gutted for you but wth... Living on a flood plain or nr a river and no insurance. Guess a few Saturday nights on the raz is more important for some. Bad choice.

Government cash should be concentrated on getting infrastructure, schools , hospitals back up and running, not replacing PS4's.

Spot the poster who hasn't read half the thread where people have already pointed out that it's not quite as simple as that!

That surely means that to them it isn't a 1 in 100 event as they now want £350k for 100 years coverage.

Surely that makes complete sense? I'm not sure how much it would cost to repair a house after it's flooded almost to the level of the first floor, but I can see it quite easily being the high tens - low hundreds of thousands, since you're basically going to have to replace all the electrics, carpets, floorboards, replaster the walls, redecorate everything, ensure the structure is still sound and hasn't been damaged by the water, make sure everything is sanitary in case the water was contaminated with sewage, replace all of the furniture, appliances, personal possessions, not to mention the cost of providing accommodation for the occupants for the weeks/months all of that is going to take! I can quite easily see all of that adding up to close to £300k for say a 3-4 bedroom property

 

[Greebo]

Spot the poster who hasn't read half the thread where people have already pointed out that it's not quite as simple as that!



Surely that makes complete sense? I'm not sure how much it would cost to repair a house after it's flooded almost to the level of the first floor, but I can see it quite easily being the high tens - low hundreds of thousands, since you're basically going to have to replace all the electrics, carpets, floorboards, replaster the walls, redecorate everything, ensure the structure is still sound and hasn't been damaged by the water, make sure everything is sanitary in case the water was contaminated with sewage, replace all of the furniture, appliances, personal possessions, not to mention the cost of providing accommodation for the occupants for the weeks/months all of that is going to take!

Not sure myself but I have seen people interviews saying they have £20k to £30k of repair bills. But surely then if its only 1 in 100, paying £350k for the insurance company to pay out £30k is a massive profit for the insurance company?

Unless like i say, their models are showing an expected £30k payout every 10 years?

 

[Glaucus]

EA spokeperson on radio 4 yesterday was still saying 1 in 100 and cumbria was just a one off freak which broke all records so all their flood defences they built since the last "freak" occurrence was never designed to cope with a record breaking downfall like we had.

But then if you are going to the trouble of building flood defences, isn't there an argument to build them to cope with slightly more than the previous record?

What do you expect, they don't wont to spend money, working off passed data to justify it, I bet they can still show the data which says it's freak occurrence, and large swaths of the public don't believe in climate change which helps them.

Insurance company are more realistic, and it'll take government departments another decade before their stats are severely broken.

 

[Haggisman]

Not sure myself but I have seen people interviews saying they have £20k to £30k of repair bills. But surely then if its only 1 in 100, paying £350k for the insurance company to pay out £30k is a massive profit for the insurance company?

Unless like i say, their models are showing an expected £30k payout every 10 years?

If that's the case then I'm surprised it's that low and maybe I'm being unrealistic with my costs

In which case, yeah that definitely seems excessive!

 

[Rifte]

I fail to understand all of this 'should have known better' talk regarding the floods in Cumbria. As Werewolf mentions if these premiums are as high as they are (3.5K...close to 300 notes a month) then how affordable is that for the average family in Cumbria with an average wage of just over 25k? After a mortgage it would probably be their second or third biggest expenditure. Great to have if it happens, but some families are FORCED to take this risk and assume that our infrastructure would have learnt lessons from previous disasters we have had.

Perhaps these people CAN'T sell their properties easily because as someone mentioned no one is buying (no one will now for a while, thats for sure!). What are they supposed to do? Let the bank repossess and move on?

The point remains that 100s of families (pensioners and children) are going to be without their own homes and possessions well into next year and perhaps beyond.

I don't believe that they will be bothered about replacing a PS4, more likely replacing their home and getting it back to a standard that they can move back into.

 

[Haggisman]

I fail to understand all of this 'should have known better' talk regarding the floods in Cumbria. As Werewolf mentions if these premiums are as high as they are (3.5K...close to 300 notes a month) then how affordable is that for the average family in Cumbria with an average wage of just over 25k? After a mortgage it would probably be their second or third biggest expenditure. Great to have if it happens, but some families are FORCED to take this risk and assume that our infrastructure would have learnt lessons from previous disasters we have had.

Perhaps these people CAN'T sell their properties easily because as someone mentioned no one is buying (no one will now for a while, thats for sure!). What are they supposed to do? Let the bank repossess and move on?

The point remains that 100s of families (pensioners and children) are going to be without their own homes and possessions well into next year and perhaps beyond.

I don't believe that they will be bothered about replacing a PS4, more likely replacing their home and getting it back to a standard that they can move back into.

Exactly, I can't begin to imagine how helpless they must feel, and there's literally nothing they can do about it (without losing everything )

 

[Uther]

If insurance companies were already charging 3.5k, how much are they going to charge after this one...
I doubt a house in the affected area will sell easily any time soon, so the people living there are stuck, and totally at the mercy of the weather, and a government that doesn't seem to care to much.