Pension - Can I opt out?

If you opt out your employer won't put anything in either. This is why some (crappy) companies are encouraging people to opt out.

Our staging date isn't until March 2017, but we've offered it for all staff from Jan 2016, with a 3% match from day one....it's the right thing to do. Pretty much everyone has taken us up on it too, even though the average age is about 25.
 
If you opt out your employer won't put anything in either. This is why some (crappy) companies are encouraging people to opt out.

Our staging date isn't until March 2017, but we've offered it for all staff from Jan 2016, with a 3% match from day one....it's the right thing to do. Pretty much everyone has taken us up on it too, even though the average age is about 25.
Still seems stingy to me but then I know people who are not even as lucky as this and the company should be applauded for matching from day one.

I've always been lucky that my remuneration has always had a great pension. It's not as good now I've moved jobs but its 10% matched. Awesome.
 
Our company matches up to 5%, which if you put in is effectively a 5% payrise out of the company, even if you are getting a net loss in the short term. Definitely worth it though! Thinking of it as a savings pot where what I get in gets doubled. Who wouldn't go for that?
 
Have you ever wondered some people just don't have enough money to put away through whatever reason, it's nothing to do with being ignorant.

Will rarely apply because even a small pension contribution goes a long way due to the tax and matching. And if money is a problem then a pension will be even more important and the opportunity to instantly double your money should become a priority.
 
Our company matches up to 5%, which if you put in is effectively a 5% payrise out of the company, even if you are getting a net loss in the short term. Definitely worth it though! Thinking of it as a savings pot where what I get in gets doubled. Who wouldn't go for that?

The gains are actually more than that your contribution and the match, and the growth are all tax free.


For some one hitting a higher rate tax band the typically choices are this:
  • Opt In: Contribute £1000, get it instantly doubled to £2000, in 10 years time it will have doubled again on average (depending on markets). You now have £4000 and haven't paid a penny in tax.
  • Opt out: Government takes £400+, you have £600. Spend it on junk you don't need and get left with nothing. Put it in a bank account with miserable interest (and above a certain amount you are going to be paying taxes on that interest) and maybe in 10 years you have £700. Instead put it in the market and get the same expected returns as above, you now have double your £600 to £1200, but you will have paid capital gains tax on the increases. CGT is 18-28% so perhaps now in 10 years time you have £1032, while the person who opted in has £4000
 
The gains are actually more than that your contribution and the match, and the growth are all tax free.


For some one hitting a higher rate tax band the typically choices are this:
  • Opt In: Contribute £1000, get it instantly doubled to £2000, in 10 years time it will have doubled again on average (depending on markets). You now have £4000 and haven't paid a penny in tax.
  • Opt out: Government takes £400+, you have £600. Spend it on junk you don't need and get left with nothing. Put it in a bank account with miserable interest (and above a certain amount you are going to be paying taxes on that interest) and maybe in 10 years you have £700. Instead put it in the market and get the same expected returns as above, you now have double your £600 to £1200, but you will have paid capital gains tax on the increases. CGT is 18-28% so perhaps now in 10 years time you have £1032, while the person who opted in has £4000

Great post.

I have been in my works Defined benefit scheme for 21 years but now, it's changing to a Defined Contribution pension to my great disappointment.

The company was contributing 24% + my 6%. now they are dropping theirs to 16% starting January, so I need to see an FA (company is providing one) so I can try and make up the shortfall.

I have 40K in my AVC account which also helps a lot.
 
Last edited:
The gains are actually more than that your contribution and the match, and the growth are all tax free.


For some one hitting a higher rate tax band the typically choices are this:
  • Opt In: Contribute £1000, get it instantly doubled to £2000, in 10 years time it will have doubled again on average (depending on markets). You now have £4000 and haven't paid a penny in tax.
  • Opt out: Government takes £400+, you have £600. Spend it on junk you don't need and get left with nothing. Put it in a bank account with miserable interest (and above a certain amount you are going to be paying taxes on that interest) and maybe in 10 years you have £700. Instead put it in the market and get the same expected returns as above, you now have double your £600 to £1200, but you will have paid capital gains tax on the increases. CGT is 18-28% so perhaps now in 10 years time you have £1032, while the person who opted in has £4000

Even better! Why wouldn't people want to go for that? Unless they are junkies and not expecting to make it past 50 it's a great deal.
 
Even better! Why wouldn't people want to go for that? Unless they are junkies and not expecting to make it past 50 it's a great deal.

Ignorance in most cases. A case of "I know better, damned goverment" in some I'd suspect as well.

As I said before in this thread, you won't find rich people opting out of pensions. They will be maximizing their annual allowances year in, year out.
 
Ignorance in most cases. A case of "I know better, damned goverment" in some I'd suspect as well.

As I said before in this thread, you won't find rich people opting out of pensions. They will be maximizing their annual allowances year in, year out.

Where I live, you get 6k per year to add to your 3rd pillar and then it saves you around 2k in tax. Well worth it.
 
Ignorance in most cases. A case of "I know better, damned goverment" in some I'd suspect as well.

As I said before in this thread, you won't find rich people opting out of pensions. They will be maximizing their annual allowances year in, year out.

Exactly, and that's before we get onto people who overpay, through salary sacrifice, keeping the remainder of their salary under the 40% bracket and sticking a **** load into their pension.

Its a no brainer.
 
Even better! Why wouldn't people want to go for that? Unless they are junkies and not expecting to make it past 50 it's a great deal.

My life expectancy is less than 50 years old and I've never even smoked, let alone taken drugs or been a junkie, but thanks for that. :rolleyes:

As for, putting it into a "miserable savings account" means that it is safe. With this auto enrolment scheme, you put your money in and its gambled. If the scheme fails, you lose. If you die before retirement, you lose. You die just after retirement, you lose. Your family lose too as its only paid for a short while despite however much you might have in the account.

Lets look at some actual figures instead of making assumptions based on perfectly performing gambles.

A 50-year-old earning £20,600 a year will, after 16 years of paying into the scheme, be left with an annual income of just £940 a year, or £18.07 a week at age 66. The maths, though, makes much more sense for younger entrants obviously.

However, because of the way the benefits system works, lower earners will find that when they come to retire, much of the pension income is cancelled out by the loss of means-tested benefits, such as housing benefit.

Its all good and well if you are in a well paying job for life, but think of those on lesser wages or those people who are in industries where the only jobs are contract roles so that they change empoyers every 6 months.

There is also a good reason to be sceptical, the last "big pensions revolution" – the launch of stakeholder pensions in 2001 – ended up being something of a flop. Someone who invested £100 a month between the launch in April 2001 and the end of March 2012 would have contributed £13,300 of their own cash, but would be sitting on a fund worth just £14,600 after charges, which looks pretty familiar....

The biggest issue with auto enrolment is the way in which it interacts with benefits. If you have to rely on them in old age through disability such as blindness, you will find that for every pound of "excess income" you will lose 65p of housing benefit and 20p of council tax benefit.

Add to this that you have to pay a fee for management of the scheme and you will actually lose out unless you are a higher wage earner.

When you do come to draw on your pension, if you chose a lump sum or to withdraw it, remember that the companies that hold your money and charge you a fee for gambling your money will also charge an exit fee and also insist on you paying to speak to a financial advisor before you take your money out. They will also take as long as possible (in some cases, 3 months) before you can access your money.

But I digress. The whole industry needs a shake up.
 
Unless the money is being invested elsewhere (such as stocks or a buy-to-let) I really think it is extremely naive and foolish to opt out a pension plan.
Most of us will live to retirement age. The thought of living in a damp council bedsit is not a pleasant one.
 
As for, putting it into a "miserable savings account" means that it is safe. With this auto enrolment scheme, you put your money in and its gambled. If the scheme fails, you lose.

Fairly wrong here. The details will change wit your particular pension scheme but typically you have full control over how and where your money is invested. You can put it 100% into secure bonds if you want, no gambling at all. The only difference is if you opt in and do it through the pension scheme your 1000 quid is now 2000 instead of 600 if you take it out.

If you die before retirement, you lose. You die just after retirement, you lose.
Whatever you do with your money if you die you wont be around to make use of it. If you take the money out and put it i a savings account you still loose. With a pension your inheritors will get the money, so your wife and children for example. The difference is if you opt in your wife and children will inherit a lot more money than if you opt ou, so the only real loss is if you opt out.



When you do come to draw on your pension, if you chose a lump sum or to withdraw it, remember that the companies that hold your money and charge you a fee for gambling your money will also charge an exit fee and also insist on you paying to speak to a financial advisor before you take your money out. They will also take as long as possible (in some cases, 3 months) before you can access your money.
 
It is almost always a great way of preparing for retirement and ensuring a good quality of like, but it really isn't "tax free" , as all you are doing is deffering the tax payment till when you receive your pension instead.

It might be more tax efficient, particularly if you are currently a higher rate payer, but it's not tax free.
 
There is also a good reason to be sceptical, the last "big pensions revolution" – the launch of stakeholder pensions in 2001 – ended up being something of a flop. Someone who invested £100 a month between the launch in April 2001 and the end of March 2012 would have contributed £13,300 of their own cash, but would be sitting on a fund worth just £14,600 after charges, which looks pretty familiar....

Not sure where you got those figures from but that's some fine cherry-picking. April 2001 was conveniently at the market high just before the dotcom crash and 9/11, and April 2012 was a time when the markets still hadn't fully recovered from the 2008 crashes.

Look at how the market performed between April 2002 and April 2013. Your £14,600 number will change wildly.
 
Back
Top Bottom