Property and pensions

There's plenty of people that own property and let it out without any mortgage and no need for any borrowings. What happened to being able to make your way in this world how ever you like within reason and within the law?

If you restrict BTL mortgages you pretty much agree to the them and us scenario where only wealthy people can be wealthy and everyone else has to remain where they are taking scraps from the table.
 
There's plenty of people that own property and let it out without any mortgage and no need for any borrowings. What happened to being able to make your way in this world how ever you like within reason and within the law?

If you restrict BTL mortgages you pretty much agree to the them and us scenario where only wealthy people can be wealthy and everyone else has to remain where they are taking scraps from the table.

What rubbish.....so you're saying the only way to make money is to be a BTL landlord, there's no other way to increase ones wealth :confused:

There have always been landlords, there always will be, but the cheap credit, ability to leverage the asset with the faux price rises has massively distorted the market where there is little supply and to much demand.
 
Oh dear, now is precisely the wrong time to get into BTL .

But at the end of the day if you don't have a defined benefit pension, what else can you do?
 
I don't mind people investing in BTL but I detest it when it is mentioned that it will fund the pension in the future. I just feel rather sorry for the tenant. I suppose its evolutionary, I.e. survival of the fittest.

It can't be used for a pension unless commercial property AFAIK so it is still an ordinary investment.

So just to clarify you don't mind a working person receiving rental income but you object to them carrying on receiving rental income when retired?
 
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The stock market has performed poorly over the past 20-30 years and so people took up BTL instead as a valid mechanism for providing for their retirement. Entirely reasonable behaviour tbh.

well that is complete nonsense

go to yahoo, pull up a graph... FTSE 100, FTSE all share... take your pick... look at the increase from 1985 to present
 
For all the people who say 'so what...who cares....its just capitalism in action' well Lord Turner one of the most respected economists in the UK and advocate of Capitalism thinks the BTL is definitely NOT ok and says we should ban banks from giving out BTL mortgages.

I've not seen him say BTL is not OK he's concerned about too much debt, easy credit and the portion of owner occupied properties. He's anti 100% mortgages but I've not seen him call for a ban on BTL mortgages - you got a source?

It is rather different to be concerned about the portion of houses not owned by owner occupiers and being against the idea of investing in property all together. There is still a very obvious need for a rental market.
 
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With the rental market the way it is, i can understand how some landlords offer properties without doing any work on them. I personally could never do that. The way i look at it, id rather spend a bit put some nice floors in and a nice kitchen and bathroom that way you can get a bit more rent and you get better tenants that will look after your stuff. If everything is cheap you get cheap tenants who don't look after your stuff. Plus when you go to resell it, a better looking property gets more money. There is no doubt that doing properties up can result in equity gained, of course in some instances its not worth spending any money on properties.

What annoys me is these landlords that take the ****. They take one large house and instead of diving it up in to two and making two very nice one bed flats and charging £1000 per month. Still earning £600+- more than they would get if they rented it out as one house. They go and get greedy and divide it up in to four flats and create crappy little studios with cheap fittings and cheap finishes, just so they can get an extra £200-300 per month out of it. Mean while their tenants are miserable and live in a crappy studio and because they are paying for crap they treat the place like crap.

There is a sweet spot to dividing up properties. I find though if the landlord has a low standard of living, this is represented in his properties. I personally couldn't be a landlord of a property with mould on the walls and everything falling apart. But for some landlords that is how they live in their primary house, because they are one step above animals a lot of them.
 
Being able to get a BTL mortgage at an LTV of 75% and high interest rates that you can only just afford is the problem. It creates instability in the rental market and inflates prices.

Claimping down on BTL to make them harder to get so that the market becomes less volatile is a goid thing. But you can't get rid of BTL, who would own all the rental properties?
 
I've not seen him say BTL is not OK he's concerned about too much debt, easy credit and the portion of owner occupied properties. He's anti 100% mortgages but I've not seen him call for a ban on BTL mortgages - you got a source?

I linked to the hard talk program in that post, it's the first 5 - 10 mins of the programme
 
Being able to get a BTL mortgage at an LTV of 75% and high interest rates that you can only just afford is the problem. It creates instability in the rental market and inflates prices.

Claimping down on BTL to make them harder to get so that the market becomes less volatile is a goid thing. But you can't get rid of BTL, who would own all the rental properties?

exactly
 
One property is probably not sufficient. It is getting more and more difficult to get a positive cash flow on properties unless you have a lot to put down, even with such low interest rates.

I am going to get in to it in the future and aim at owning multiple property.

Beware, I don't think it's going to look that good for BTL around 2020. Osborne is looking to make major changes. I think it may even result in 100% tax.
 
A major change that needs to happen is the realisation of the capital gain when you withdraw your equity from the BTL house, not just when you sell it.

I saw that interview - at what time does he call for a ban on BTL mortgages?

From 3.50 - 9.30 he is talking about good debt and bad debt and how the west is still awash in bad debt, one example of which he gave is the leveraging of property assets for investment through bank lending (ie : BTL mortgages) and how counter intuitively cheap credit, when too easily available, leads to a decrease in owner occupancy, of which home ownership has been a major political driving force in this country.

He then talks about how the state/regulators need to step in to curtail the banks ability to create debt (lend) to stop the amount of bad debt being created, since credit is not like selling other goods and services that work fine under a free market principle.

So no, he doesn't say the word ban, I had mis remembered his exact words, but his inference is to regulate and curtail the banks ability to lend via BTL mortgages.

Good.
 
well yes that is rather different and I said that in my previous post:

I've not seen him say BTL is not OK he's concerned about too much debt, easy credit and the portion of owner occupied properties. He's anti 100% mortgages but I've not seen him call for a ban on BTL mortgages - you got a source?

It is rather different to be concerned about the portion of houses not owned by owner occupiers and being against the idea of investing in property all together. There is still a very obvious need for a rental market.

your previous claim was that this great economist says BTL is not OK and has called for a ban on BTL mortgages, that isn't true
 
If they reduce the number of bad debts whereby increasing a stable buy to let market in which more Good debts can be created then fine.

There is never going to be a 100% Tax on this, since they are fighting the decrease in tax relief due to this being victimization.
 
your previous claim was that this great economist says BTL is not OK and has called for a ban on BTL mortgages, that isn't true

As I said, I had mis remembered his exact words, and no he didn't mention a ban.

But he certainly says the BTL mortgage market leading to a decrease in owner occupancy since 1998 and awashing the country with bad debt, is not OK and needs curtailing/regulating.

Hence why Osborne is now taking measures to do exactly this
 
it is a rather different claim to make as I've already pointed out, yes too much debt, easy access to credit isn't good

the OP isn't talking about that though - he's against BTL income being used by pensioners, a rather different subject
 
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