Advice pls, approved used car supplied with wrong spec

[VincentHanna]

Was it actually on the BMW AUC site advertised with Xenons, or just in the dealer advert?

Usually BMW AUC just gets the info from the VIN I think.

Edit - Just read the update. If it helps when I bought a Used BMW from Enfield, the salesmen were atrocious.

 

[TheVoice]

Of course, as a buyer, you should be able to tell what is on a car or not on a car.

I don't think that's fair because even if you think you know what you're looking for, it can be confusing. A lot of people would probably assume a car with projector headlight units has xenons (I certainly used to), whereas this is presumably one of those seemingly rare occasions where BMW fits projectors but uses halogen bulbs.

 

[MOOGLEYS]

Your father is well within his rights to return the car for a full refund + any costs incurred by him in doing so.

 

[xs2man]

Some options are very hard without geek/expert level knowledge. Most people don't even know a factory printout is a thing.

For example can you please explain - without google - how to tell at a glance on a sunny forecourt whether an F10/11 5 Series is fitted with Adaptive Headlights?

Why would I need to NOT use google? It's there for the use of everyone. At a guess though, in keeping with your premise, I would look for a sensor on the windscreen and an activation button somewhere in the cockpit / stalk or something. But that is really beside the point. If you want a piece of spec, that is of such importance you would reject a car without it, you should find out how to tell if it's present.

I don't think that's fair because even if you think you know what you're looking for, it can be confusing. A lot of people would probably assume a car with projector headlight units has xenons (I certainly used to), whereas this is presumably one of those seemingly rare occasions where BMW fits projectors but uses halogen bulbs.

Well that is the buyers problem really the way you put it there. If it's that important a feature, find out how to tell the difference. Simples.

However, with respect to the OP, I did say unless he bought at a distance. Which was later confirmed he did. Moreover, the OP's father did, in fact, get confirmation no less than 3 times, in writing. And a spec sheet. In this case I agree, he is bang to rights to request a full refund / exchange. My original point was to simply not just takes a salesmanship word for it, while in the "heat" of a face to face sale.

However, even with that said, there is a difference in the look of a projector lamp and a xenon. Usually at least. And so armed with a picture of the actual unit, it should have been noticeable. And the car wasn't apparently advertised as having xenons. And he rejected several cars previously for not having this element of spec, so should really have known how to tell.

I'm not necessarily saying the OP's father was in the wrong here. All I'm saying is there is some degree of onus on the buyer to ensure whatever car they buy meets the spec they require. As said earlier in the thread, salesmen are often muppets and clueless, so there should be some responsibility on the buyer.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Why would I need to NOT use google?

Because cars have dozens and dozens of features, anyone who can honestly claim they'd have googled how to find if a particular option was actually present or not is surely lying. You wouldn't do it. You'd check the obvious ones (Leather, Nav, blah) but some of the more obscure ones it's perfectly natural and appropriate to trust the expert main dealer selling the car to have accurately reported the spec.

If you are buying from Bobs Backstreet Motas then maybe fair enough, but you pay top whack from a main dealer which is supposed to take the variability out of the equation. You are paying more money to be able to rely on the dealer.

At a guess though, in keeping with your premise, I would look for a sensor on the windscreen and an activation button somewhere in the cockpit / stalk or something.

Neither of which are part of Adaptive headlights so well done, you've just failed to ascertain whether the car has them fitted. It's all your fault too! You deserve to be mis-sold a car!

In reality the only way to tell is that a car without them has a 'fake' projector on the inside of the headlight unit and a car with them has a halogen style light cover. I only found this out myself once I'd compared two cars with Xenon's but one without adaptive - the difference is that subtle!

Well that is the buyers problem really the way you put it there. If it's that important a feature, find out how to tell the difference. Simples.

However, even with that said, there is a difference in the look of a projector lamp and a xenon. Usually at least.

Sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't. On an E60 for example it's very difficult to tell an LCI with Xenons from one without simply by looking at the lights.

 

[chrislusty]

Ok

not the same car, but does this fiesta have Xenons?

 

[eatcustard]

If the car is good keep it and take the £300, its only lights and the difference is not that great.

 

[Fr0dders]

If the car is good keep it and take the £300, its only lights and the difference is not that great.

They aren't "only lights" though.

The Father stressed to the dealer enough times (3 times I recall) that he wanted to make sure it had xenons. Its important to him. Just because it's not important to you doesn't make you right and him wrong.

He wanted them, was repeatedly told via written e-mail it did and not to worry. Dealer are bang to rights. Personally I'd suggest the OP's father stops driving the car now and drops it off at the dealer pronto to remove the excuse for the dealer of "ah well it's' been over xx days now"

 

[Booner!]

My father hasn't used the car since in fairness, it's delivery mileage from the dealer and sat on the drive as he only got as far as reading the manual and working his way around the new vehicle features. I think the salesman has read adaptive control (1-3 wheel) next to the lights which does feature in the spec sheet and misinterpreted this to be in fact adaptive xenons. Easy mistake to make for a buyer or possibly private sale, but from an AUC BMW salesman - in my eyes you are paying a premium for 100% reassurance and expertise in the sale.

 

[Fr0dders]

agreed. If its sat on the drive not being driven then he should be ok.

Just reinforce your point that £300 will not suffice and he wants to return the car back and for them to source a replacement that has the spec he wants.

 

[peige]

For next time he might want to use the Vin decoder site, lists the options on the car afaik.
http://bimmer.work/

I'd agree though, he did his best and has an email trail to show the question was answered. I would say though that in broad terms the sales guys are pretty clueless about options and as a punter its very difficult to see what options are fitted.

 

[Fr0dders]

For next time he might want to use the Vin decoder site, lists the options on the car afaik.
http://bimmer.work/

I'd agree though, he did his best and has an email trail to show the question was answered. I would say though that in broad terms the sales guys are pretty clueless about options and as a punter its very difficult to see what options are fitted.

would have been difficult to use that site as he was buying from distance. And I don't think the dealers will hand out the VIN numbers to random telephone enquiries about a car they have for sale !

 

[peige]

would have been difficult to use that site as he was buying from distance. And I don't think the dealers will hand out the VIN numbers to random telephone enquiries about a car they have for sale !

Maybe not on the first email but I don't see why not.

 

[VincentHanna]

When I was looking at cars I had to photograph the VIN plate in the door and check it when I was back at home.

 

[Logsi]

For example can you please explain - without google - how to tell at a glance on a sunny forecourt whether an F10/11 5 Series is fitted with Adaptive Headlights?

May be wrong but I'm sure there is indented writing on the cluster of my old mans F10 M5 that says adaptive.

EDIT - Just took a look and there is but it's also LED so probably different for Xenon/Halogen...

 

[TheVoice]

Well that is the buyers problem really the way you put it there. If it's that important a feature, find out how to tell the difference. Simples.

My point you seemingly missed was that you can go into it thinking you're equipped with the knowledge you need only to find out it's still wrong. Cars are confusing at the best of times, and dealers who don't know what they're talking about just make things worse.

However, even with that said, there is a difference in the look of a projector lamp and a xenon. Usually at least.

Not in my experience. Lack of headlight washers is sometimes a sign but then some manufacturers fit those regardless too. How confusing...

All I'm saying is there is some degree of onus on the buyer to ensure whatever car they buy meets the spec they require. As said earlier in the thread, salesmen are often muppets and clueless, so there should be some responsibility on the buyer.

Responsibility in terms of what, being blamed for it on an internet forum? Because that's as far as it goes really; if a dealer says a car has a feature and it quickly transpires that it doesn't, the dealer is entirely at fault. It doesn't really matter that us knowledgeable internet folk are more likely to research every little detail because the average person doesn't have the time nor inclination and just wants a car with the features they want. Laying blame on them for not scouring data sheets and enthusiast forums to find out which type of headlight switch a car should have is silly and unreasonable.

 

[[TW]Fox]

May be wrong but I'm sure there is indented writing on the cluster of my old mans F10 M5 that says adaptive.

EDIT - Just took a look and there is but it's also LED so probably different for Xenon/Halogen...

It is different - there is no 'Adaptive' writing on conventional Adaptive lights on the F10.

My F10 has Adaptive Xenon's, my Dads F11 has regular Xenon's. Other than actually using the lights the only way to tell externally is that his light cluster appears to have two projectors whereas mine appears to have one projector and a conventional lense (The second projector on the non Adaptive cars is a dummy).

This is extremely geeky level knowledge which it's simply unacceptable to expect any buyer to be aware of. I'm using it as a good example of how it's just not fair to blame the buyer for missing spec unless its something obvious like leather seats or nav or something.

 

[xs2man]

Of course. Silly me. OCUK Motors, the only corner of the internet where Caveat Emptor is no longer a thing...

Of course technology has moved on, but should we, as buyers, be absolved of any responsibility as to what we buy, simply because of ignorance? No. If we want something, we should be able to tell if we are getting it or not. There is CLEARLY going to be a way of telling the difference between adaptive xenons, and projectors on an X5. I have never needed to know how, but if I did, I would research it. In this case, the OP's father even got a picture, which, as Fox has already pointed out, is one way of telling, externally, the spec of the fitted light units.

Moreover, Fox, are you really trying to suggest that there is no method for the driver to control whether the adaptive lights are on or off? I suggested that there will be a control for this either on the console (most likely near the light switch) or on a stalk. Certainly on my e91 it was stalk controlled. I would expect similar on an X5 to be honest. There has to be a way, so it has to be able to be determined from this. Just because I haven't looked seriously at an X5, and so don't know exactly how it works, doesn't mean it doesn't work in some similar fashion. And if I was looking for such a car, with such a spec, and was willing to reject cars without this spec, surely the onus would, to some degree at least, be on me to know the difference? It is MY money buying it afterall.

And if I'm likely to be spending £25k+ or whatever this AUC X5 costs, should I not be expected to do at least some basic research into what I want from it? The argument that the average person doesn't have the time to research a purchase on this scale holds no merit, unless your Elliot James or someone with unlimited funds and no clue. In which case, the xenons probably aren't as important as wheel size and the shade of white.

As I said, in this case, I agree the OP's father did things correctly, for the most part. He had written confirmation 3 times, and should easily get the car swapped out or returned. However, surely a quick comparison of the picture of the light unit that was supplied, and one known to be of X5 xenons would have been enough to determine the salesman was a numpty.

 

[Stringy]

Of course. Silly me. OCUK Motors, the only corner of the internet where Caveat Emptor is no longer a thing...

He bought it from a dealership and as such is protected by the Consumer Rights Act (2015) which states the vehicle must be 'as described' and the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations (2008) which prohibits a trader from providing false or misleading information. Caveat Emptor does not apply here.

Feel free to stop flogging your dead horse whenever you feel.

 

[xs2man]

It still applies. How does it not?

It was not actually advertised with xenons, by the OP's admission. However, despite that, despite the laws protecting the buyer here, surely the buyer should still have some responsibility as to what he bought? Or am I the only one who doesn't seem to live in the real world? I wish I made so much money I didn't have to worry about what I was buying, relying solely on the law to back me up.