Freedom of speech - KCL's Student Israel society attacked by demonstrators

dowie

dowie

dowie

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Police were called to one of the country's top universities on Tuesday night after a student Israel society was attacked by demonstrators.
Eyewitnesses describe a mob throwing chairs and smashing windows, while pictures show officers standing guard outside the building at Kings College London.
The incident comes amid growing concerns over the rise of intimidation and the suppression of free speech on British university campuses.
The KCL Israel Society was hosting an event with a group from the neighbouring London School of Economics.
They invited Ami Ayalon, now a peace activist and former head of Israeli secret service Shin Bet and commander-in-chief of the navy.The meeting was disturbed by protestors, thought to be from a student group, KCL Action Palestine.
They are said to have gained access to the building in London's West End, thrown chairs, smashed windows and set off fire alarms.
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What is happening to free speech at UK universities? This is a slightly worrying trend lefties and muslims basically being rather intolerant and trying to shut down anything they don't like.

Not too long ago a bunch of muslims tried to shut down a talk at Goldsmiths university by an ex-muslim:

http://www.independent.co.uk/studen...ckle-and-aggressively-interrupt-a6760306.html

Comedian Dapper Laughs banned from Cardiff university:

http://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...pper-laughs-laddish-banter-banned-cardiff-uni

Even Feminist Germain Greer ended up with a petition to ban her from Cardiff uni due to her comments about trans people:

http://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ff-university-to-cancel-germain-greer-lecture


Yet when it comes to Islamists and muslim students, well....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...-extremist-speakers-are-named-and-shamed.html

The Government’s Extremism Analysis Unit has concluded that there were at least 70 events held on campuses last year that involved hate preachers. Queen Mary, King’s College, SOAS and Kingston University held most events, the unit said.
It is the first time the Government has detailed those institutions who most regularly host fanatics.
Speakers included the homophobic preachers Haitham al-Haddad, Dr Uthman Lateef and Imran Ibn Mansur.
Hamza Tzortzis, who has called for an Islamic state and expressed his hostility towards Western values, and Dr Salman Butt were also highlighted.
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Forget Dapper Laughs and his naughty jokes - how about a cleric who tells you it is OK to beat your wife if she refuses to have sex with you:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ouring-British-universities-unchallenged.html

Egyptian cleric Fadel Soliman spoke at five such events last year, using them to refer Muslim students to an online lecture series in which he speaks in favour of hitting women and outlines the Islamic case for sex slavery and polygamy.
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That's right - sexist comedian = bad

But muslim cleric following an interpretation of Islam more in line with ISIS... ah well that would be racist to ban him... How moderate are these muslim students at the Islamic societies of major UK universities if they're happy with inviting these sorts of speakers?


For added irony - the Israeli speaker at the recent KCL event is a peace activist who is quite critical of the Israeli government.
 
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It is another form of oppression from the religion of peace, they treat their women like dirt as women are oppressed under this religion and culture, they are trying the same with us or any other country they want to live in but would rather live under their own oppressive beliefs\laws\religion and force them onto us or other people across the world.
 
A lot of people claim to be peace activists but aren't, a lot are just ex horrifically awful people who get paid for appearances and like to play up a public persona. For instance Blair took part in an illegal war that made defence companies billions in extra profits and then took a job as a peace envoy. Heading the Israeli secret service makes him pretty unlikely to be a genuine peace activist, but a hypocrite who after his career gets to parade around pretending to be a better man than he really is.

I have no idea if he is such a guy or not, and I don't think violence in protesting is acceptable either. But I can absolutely understand a palestinian group wanting to protest him speaking at their university.

But yes, free speech remaining free is an ongoing issue, american universities going through the same not lefty, but right wing 'mock liberal' attitudes of never having to listen to anything they don't want to.

I don't think of ultra feminists who protest against men rather than for equality as leftist, nor groups that want to shut down freespeech, doesn't matter if they CLAIM to be liberal and feminist and whatever else, that very attitude is extremely right wing and these groups of people should be labelled correctly. It's not leftists complaining about people speaking, but right wingers who believe they are lefty because they act like facists over a supposed lefty cause.


Fact is most sides are stupid and insist on using extreme measures to shut down anyone from the 'other' side from talking. Sometimes groups are right to protest, sometimes they are bogus. IE protesting ex secret service head probably is fine, violence is not, protesting a mens rights group is not even okay to protest IMHO, let alone it getting violent. As in there are ultra feminist groups who will turn up at a male rape support group and tell them they can't be raped, that kind of stuff. Same as turning up at abortion clinics and protesting against women is IMHO not at all on.
 
dowie said:
But muslim cleric following an interpretation of Islam more in line with ISIS... ah well that would be racist to ban him...
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There's ongoing investigations into how and why he was invited to speak on campuses. I guess he wasn't well known in this country and so flew under the radar.

Also, people like Dapper Laughs and Germaine Greer definitely aren't having their free speech infringed by not being invited to speak. They both reach a wide audience already through TV, newspapers and social media. Free speech doesn't mean others are obliged to give you a platform to spread your message.
 
No-one who is keeping half an eye on the decline of western civilisation should be surprised by this. Universities are a hotbed of cultural marxism and jihadism. We've seen Bahar "kill all white men" Mustafa, we've seen Islamic hate preachers given platforms at UK universities, we've seen the NUS refuse to condemn the brutality of the Islamic State.
 
Tunney said:
There's ongoing investigations into how and why he was invited to speak on campuses. I guess he wasn't well known in this country and so flew under the radar.

Also, people like Dapper Laughs and Germaine Greer definitely aren't having their free speech infringed by not being invited to speak. They both reach a wide audience already through TV, newspapers and social media. Free speech doesn't mean others are obliged to give you a platform to spread your message.
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drs101 said:
freedom to protest goes hand in hand with freedom of speech, if it gets nasty or violent let the police deal with it.
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Both good points really, and whilst it's unseemly and undignified in many cases (such as the video here); they do have a right to protest her speech. I don't agree necessarily with how they went about it (simply walking out would have been enough), but people do have the right to protest.


scorza said:
Universities are a hotbed of cultural marxism and jihadism.
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I knew this would be in here before I even entered the thread. Lolscorza.
 
Who truly believes that we have freedom of speech?

Feel free to say what you want, but understand that in the wrong place/at the wrong time/in the wrong way there will be repercussions.
 
Gilly said:
Who truly believes that we have freedom of speech?

Feel free to say what you want, but understand that in the wrong place/at the wrong time/in the wrong way there will be repercussions.
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Freedom of speech and consequence-free speech ain't the same thing :)
 
Gilly said:
Who truly believes that we have freedom of speech?

Feel free to say what you want, but understand that in the wrong place/at the wrong time/in the wrong way there will be repercussions.
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i was just about to add that, we do not really have freedom of speech in the UK.
 
Gilly said:
Who truly believes that we have freedom of speech?

Feel free to say what you want, but understand that in the wrong place/at the wrong time/in the wrong way there will be repercussions.
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True but those repercussions shouldn't include violence from people who disagree with you. I certainly think that a student Israel society should be allowed to convene and hold their meeting in place, and I'm not particularly pro-Israel.
 
Tunney said:
There's ongoing investigations into how and why he was invited to speak on campuses. I guess he wasn't well known in this country and so flew under the radar.

Also, people like Dapper Laughs and Germaine Greer definitely aren't having their free speech infringed by not being invited to speak. They both reach a wide audience already through TV, newspapers and social media. Free speech doesn't mean others are obliged to give you a platform to spread your message.
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erm they're not not being invited, they're being invited and either banned or having petitions to ban them - I'm just highlighting the double standards present on university campuses. That an Islamist preacher isn't well known is irrelevant, the Islamic societies who invite him know who he is, he's got his speeches on youtube etc...

Yet lefties are will froth at the mouth if an Israeli comes to talk, despite him being a peace activist, will ban some comedian however are rather silent as far as any open misogyny or intolerance is concerned when it comes from Islam.
 
A spokesman for KCL said the university is conducting an "urgent investigation" of the events.
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I wonder what sanctions, if any, the university could actually bring against this KCL Acttion Palestine. Banning them would just drive them "underground", so to speak.
 
Gilly said:
Who truly believes that we have freedom of speech?

Feel free to say what you want, but understand that in the wrong place/at the wrong time/in the wrong way there will be repercussions.
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it is the actions and repercussions that are the really subject here - namely that people in UK universities are trying to shut down certain speech altogether simply based on who the groups are. It wasn't that this guy was a hate preacher or even had said anything outrageous but simply because he was an Israeli who held a senior position in Israel. That isn't something that is really acceptable.

Likewise with the recent furor at Goldsmiths - the speaker drew animosity simply because she was an ex-muslim who had the audacity to criticise Islam.

It is one thing to protest or object to a speaker or to ban the people who are extremists - but trying to shut down speech through violence and intimidation or having double standards whereby blatant extremists representing one group are in fact allowed to preach hate just isn't on.
 
scorza said:
True but those repercussions shouldn't include violence from people who disagree with you. I certainly think that a student Israel society should be allowed to convene and hold their meeting in place, and I'm not particularly pro-Israel.
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do you also think radical muslims should be allowed to convene and hold their meeting in place?
 
platypus said:
I wonder what sanctions, if any, the university could actually bring against this KCL Acttion Palestine. Banning them would just drive them "underground", so to speak.
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well students committing vandalism - throwing chairs, damaging property and setting off fire alarms ought to face disciplinary action - ranging from fines for the fire alarms through to more serious action re: deliberately damaging property - as in warning them that if they do something like that again they get expelled.
 
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