Had a ride a in a Tesla P90D today

So they wont be screwed then, good god man. If you are aware of it so are they. It's all part of a business plan. It's still a few years away. Gigafactory should start to open in 2016 obviously not full production that saves them money. not only cheaper to produce but don't have to pay someone else profits. Along with production continue to ramps up thus more cars and cheaper to manufacture each car.

Still not to long to go, to show you they wont be screwed.
 
The Bolt would be impressive if it wasn't a Chevy, and if GM weren't behind the marketing. It'll likely be a commercial disaster. Sad to say, but probably true. They aren't even bothering with a European launch after Chevrolet and the Volt/Ampera utterly flopped over here.

It does give some hope that other manufacturers can maybe start releasing similar cars though.
 
Problem for tesla is when the big boys get going and they have exhausted all their engineering talent it might get a bit messy.

As I understand other premium manufacturers are looking at releasing cars with actual door stowage!
 
Problem for tesla is when the big boys get going and they have exhausted all their engineering talent it might get a bit messy.

As I understand other premium manufacturers are looking at releasing cars with actual door stowage!

Only if they start building massive battery factories, otherwise they may have a car design with no way to fulfil orders. Or supercharging network, unless they pay Tesla to use there's. It's not quite as simple as just going, it's the right time now, we'll produce a car.
 
Indeed. That's largely what the Super Credits have paid for - the massive amounts of infrastructure needed to support an EV-focused automotive business.

To put things in perspective, Ecotricity's Rapid Chargers are 43kW. A Tesla Supercharger runs up to 120kW. With the Supercharger, Tesla can take an 85kWh battery to 80% in about 20 minutes. That's about the same time a Leaf or Zoe RC takes to hit 80% on a 43kW Rapid Charger, but they only have 22kW batteries. A 20 minute charge buys a Leaf about 60 miles, a Zoe about 75 miles and a Model S about 200 miles. To throw in the flavour of the month, the Chevy Bolt is assumed to have a 60kWh pack. While that gives it a tasty 200 mile range, it does mean recharging on our current infrastructure will be slow! Something like 1hr 20 mins to 100% on a 43kWh Rapid, so likely in the region on 50 mins to 80%.

To compete with Tesla, other manufacturers are going to have to fund a significant upgrade to this country's charging infrastructure. If they don't get a move on with that, the Model 3 could become the most successful EV simply due to practical considerations - 200 mile range, 20 minutes to charge an extra 150 miles, reasonable price.

Also, on the subject of the Model 3, it's expected to be revealed this year ahead of a 2017 launch. Tesla are predicting, however, that they won't hit full availability until later in the decase because they simply won't be able to build enough batteries. They are set to become the world's biggest high capacity battery pack manufacturer and they expect to fall short on demand after spending years and billions of dollars building dedicated factories.

It's no secret that Tesla are placing a massive bet on EVs. They need demand to spike, likely fuelled by the Model 3. If they are correct, nobody else is anywhere near ready to start competing. GM, Renault/Nissan, Toyota, VW, BMW are all expecting a slow, steady increase in demand and aren't prepared for a jump caused by truly practical EVs hitting the market.
 
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The supercharger network is not a filling strategy for Tesla. Its simply for occasion top-ups.... their own email even suggests this as the uptake can not be supported by the superchargers.
 
The supercharger network is not a filling strategy for Tesla. Its simply for occasion top-ups.... their own email even suggests this as the uptake can not be supported by the superchargers.

Indeed. They exist to facilitate long-distance travel. That's the point in rapid chargers. They aren't there for every day filling up, but to enable journeys outside of the EV's maximum range.
 
The problem is that it's free leccy though. As long as the price of a cup of coffee is less than what that charge would cost at home, people will abuse it.
 
I'm not sure that currently actually happens? I can't work out how the saving is worth it, unless you were already going to be at that Supercharger? Assuming 20% charge left and charging to 80% in a P85D, at 12p per kWh you'd be saving about £6, but spending £3.50 on a coffee. If you needed to stop anyway, sure. Why not top up? But if you weren't? Surely the detour and delay isn't worth saving £2.50?

The economics are less favourable the smaller the battery. It costs me less than the price of a coffee to fill the Zoe from empty. I live near a service station and could top up for free whenever I like. But it's simply not worth it.
 
So after a couple of days with a Tesla S 70 with a good spec I am completely converted. The thing makes driving around central London so easy. The auto pilot works really well and even this base model is very quick.

I would say the ideal combination would be a 85D with a nice weekend car. Yes the interior is not amazing but the other parts of the car compensate for it.

Just for fun I took a P90D with ludicrous mode out today and its really very very quick but we all know that already.

Note I did not buy this car, my friend sold his 911 to get this so I took it for a couple of days just to get the feel of it.

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Chap I know well is getting TERRIBLE mileage out of it and is currently tracking all his journeys but presently he is seeing circa 150 miles range before he needs to charge. He uses the car as a car not a 20 mile round trip across London car, he is not driving at silly speeds, steady paced and when he gets in it says miles X range, as he drives that drops massively. He is currently of the opinion it is not the car he was sold in terms of real range.
 
Thats strange, I did a mix of motorway and central london and got 200 miles the super charger is really fast and there is one in westfields where I am most days so it worked out really well.

Does he have a 60?

I may actually buy one as I just put in a offer on a flat in W2 so if it goes though and I am living in central London it would be ideal for me. The free parking is a huge bonus also.
 
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No idea, but just asked the question in another place with a few Tesla owners and seems to be a common theme. Use it a bit and it's 150-170 range maximum.
 
The first time I saw one of these was at a supercar meet. Very strange to see it accelerating so quickly and in practical silence...especially after hearing some lambos drive past. The silence just doesn't do it for me though.
 
No idea, but just asked the question in another place with a few Tesla owners and seems to be a common theme. Use it a bit and it's 150-170 range maximum.

Most I've driven do that, even if you're driving them normally. Deploy the performance on offer (or if it's cold, or you use the AC and lights, etc, all tots up) and it tumbles.

If you adopt a steady 60mph cruise and don't touch anything you'll get about 1-ish mile per depleted mile of indicated range, if the temperature's OK and the battery's healthy - but outside of that and it'll dip fairly promptly. We had one crash from an indicated 80 miles to 'recharge now', which wasn't amusing.

No cover for degradation, either, and I've seen a few that have lost a fair chunk of charge in a short period of time, hampering their long-range capabilities further. Plus there's the challenge of actually getting access to a Supercharger when you need it. Can be problematic in mainland Europe where there's comparatively loads of them.

Put a few hundred miles on a P90D last week and that was much the same, but if you gunned it the range would just drop away at a crippling rate of knots. Great fun, though, and little else feels like it - not even GT-Rs. Still fab bits of kit, either way, and the issues are likely moot for most buyers (one chap I met had bought one off the cuff, just because he was interested - hadn't driven it prior to signing for it).

The sweet spot is the 70D for me at the moment :)
 
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Oh dear. Technology costs generally fall faster than cost to consumer.
Pretty much all new technology is prohibitively expensive to start with. Yet all the main stream tech we have now is affordable.

So yeah what you've written is balony.

That would be relevant if batteries were new technology. Since they aren't, it isn't. Nor is a demand for better batteries something that would be created by EV, since it already exists in a much larger market (handheld computers). There have been dozens of major advances in battery technology in development for years, even decades. None are practical, nor are any expected to be any time soon. For example, a recent breakthrough in lithium air batteries has made the researchers cautiously optimistic that it might be possible to make it into a usable product in maybe as little as 10 years time. Or it might be impossible to ever do so.

You could make an electric Mondeo that had the same acceleration and range as a P90D (or more than it - it's perfectly possible to make a road legal EV that will do 0-60 in well under 2 seconds), but the batteries alone would cost more than the full retail price of the ICE version of the car.
 
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Only time will tell I suppose. What Tesla *should've* done is made a little hatchback for zipping around town, where range is less of an issue and there are more charging points.

But people could buy an equally capable ICE car of that type for a third of the price and have vastly more refueling points and vastly faster refueling. The only market would be rich people who want to make an environmental statement and that's not enough of a market for Tesla. Or anyone else.
 
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