Where do you work? Every place I've ever worked that would just be counted as absence through the usual sickness process.
The Gender Pay Gap Is Dead
- Thread starter philip2009
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Where do you work? Every place I've ever worked that would just be counted as absence through the usual sickness process.
Soldato
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To play devil's advocate a feminists would say that only works because the management are all men.
we were allowed to claim for a taxi officially, unofficially if any bloke used it management would get rather miffed as it was basically for female staff... though officially they can't say it is only for female staff - you just got strongly encouraged from submitting expenses and would have to chase a few times to get them paid
if your workplace has that as an official policy then it is a bit dubious legally AFAIK
for example I remember at uni there was a women's minibus service paid for by the union for female students... though female students who were also employed as bar staff in the student's union were not allowed to use it because, as an employer, the union had to treat employees equally
Cultural Marxists?
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[FnG]magnolia;29177531 said:
So please state what facts are inaccurate.
Much of the published reviews are written to pander to an audience who want to believe there is a pay gap and massive discrimination. They tend to studiously ignore things like ONS pay stats - I'm talking to you Guardian. There's a market for feminist clickbait, even the BBC do it regularly ... and the author is female.
I'm sorry but when presented with facts that don't show women as oppressed or, like everybody else, flawed human beings many people become disturbed because it challenges their innate "Women are wonderful" psychological bias.
Soldato
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I work in the NHS and I've seen childcare commitments work in both the mum's favour and not in the mum's favour.
In pregnancy, the lady gets 3 months off before the birth (3rd trimester), which is because the lady is carrying a baby! Then after the birth, both parties can split the maternity leave.
Then on the other side of the coin, we had that heavy winter in 2010 and my place dismissed us early on a few occasions. My manager said that because I turned up to work ok (being childless), she said I would still get full day's pay. Two child-bearing colleagues, however, couldn't make it to work because of childcare issues and the manager docked a day's pay from them. Probably a bit unfair on them, but imo having a child is a choice for most people (where I'll never get that choice due to genetics).
In pregnancy, the lady gets 3 months off before the birth (3rd trimester), which is because the lady is carrying a baby! Then after the birth, both parties can split the maternity leave.
Then on the other side of the coin, we had that heavy winter in 2010 and my place dismissed us early on a few occasions. My manager said that because I turned up to work ok (being childless), she said I would still get full day's pay. Two child-bearing colleagues, however, couldn't make it to work because of childcare issues and the manager docked a day's pay from them. Probably a bit unfair on them, but imo having a child is a choice for most people (where I'll never get that choice due to genetics).
I have never thought the pay gap existed in general.
In some sectors I'm sure certain sexes are paid more than the other. Significantly. But overall I imagine it's fairly neutral.
The issue is that it's human nature to compare yourself to your peers. For example in my social circle the majority of men completed STEM subjects and have gone either into Computing, Engineering, Finance or Law job roles. The women on the other hand have mostly going into Administration, Journalism, Hospitality or Media. Antedotal I realise but I imagine it stocks true in a lot of cases. Men and women enjoy different jobs I suppose.
In some sectors I'm sure certain sexes are paid more than the other. Significantly. But overall I imagine it's fairly neutral.
The issue is that it's human nature to compare yourself to your peers. For example in my social circle the majority of men completed STEM subjects and have gone either into Computing, Engineering, Finance or Law job roles. The women on the other hand have mostly going into Administration, Journalism, Hospitality or Media. Antedotal I realise but I imagine it stocks true in a lot of cases. Men and women enjoy different jobs I suppose.
Never believed this rubbish anyway. I do however believe that there is a gender pay gap at my place.
Ive known so far 3 female work colleagues earn anything from 500-1500 a year more than me. This vs one colleague who even showed me his payslip as i didnt believe him (15+ yrs service) was on the same as me and my mate who worked there briefly was on 750 more.... so by the same feminist anecdotal evidence this must be subjective of the false gender based dichotomy (trololol)
The same is true for flexi time for men not being allowed it. A former colleague asked for a 4 day week, was declined so had to basically threaten to leave, big commotion amongst management who were all female and finally caved.
A more interesting question is what percentage of women workers work part time? At my company its got to be at least 25%
Ive known so far 3 female work colleagues earn anything from 500-1500 a year more than me. This vs one colleague who even showed me his payslip as i didnt believe him (15+ yrs service) was on the same as me and my mate who worked there briefly was on 750 more.... so by the same feminist anecdotal evidence this must be subjective of the false gender based dichotomy (trololol)
The same is true for flexi time for men not being allowed it. A former colleague asked for a 4 day week, was declined so had to basically threaten to leave, big commotion amongst management who were all female and finally caved.
A more interesting question is what percentage of women workers work part time? At my company its got to be at least 25%
They were discussing this on one of the politics shows on Sunday. Evidence shows up until the age of 28-30 woman are earning slightly more than men. Then from 31-40 there is a pay gap because women are generally waiting until their early 30s to have children.
It's very difficult to close that gap without throwing money at women taking time off to raise their child. I think the feminists want child care to be completely free so these career women can go back to work sooner. Don't really agree with that, the government have better things to spend money on like more doctors and nurses...
It's very difficult to close that gap without throwing money at women taking time off to raise their child. I think the feminists want child care to be completely free so these career women can go back to work sooner. Don't really agree with that, the government have better things to spend money on like more doctors and nurses...
Soldato
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Presuming Youtube comments can be trusted for a minute, one of the top comments is very interesting...
If any of those things were reversed, you'd see countless Guardian CIF articles and feminist blogs about them and how the prove the xistsence of the patriarchy.
This was on Newsnight the other day, and it was reported that up to the late 30s, women earned more than men in a like-for-like comparison.
The "pay gap" was between mothers and those who chose not to have children.
It was then suggested that this pay gap needed "correcting".
So the assumption must be, that by taking yourself out of the labour market for a couple years, you should be rewarded the same as someone who spent those two years working and moving up the ladder.
Surely this is going to offend women who don't have kids? That they can be paid the same as someone who spent the last couple years being a stay at home mum?
Of course then the argument became that "people don't value motherhood" as highly as they should, and that by paying people returning to the workplace less than those who never left, you are discriminating against mothers.
Cake and eating it springs to mind.
The "pay gap" was between mothers and those who chose not to have children.
It was then suggested that this pay gap needed "correcting".
So the assumption must be, that by taking yourself out of the labour market for a couple years, you should be rewarded the same as someone who spent those two years working and moving up the ladder.
Surely this is going to offend women who don't have kids? That they can be paid the same as someone who spent the last couple years being a stay at home mum?
Of course then the argument became that "people don't value motherhood" as highly as they should, and that by paying people returning to the workplace less than those who never left, you are discriminating against mothers.
Cake and eating it springs to mind.
This is certainly one reason why average figures sometimes show a gender pay gap, it's effectively down to career choices.
Although one could ask, why don't more women do STEM subjects? The unfortunate answer is they've put off doing these subjects as they're typically seen as male dominated/focused and unfriendly to women. There's also the cultural side of these subjects being seen as uncool/geeky, which doesn't seem to bother men as much.
That argument cuts both ways though.
Why don't more men become nurses? Because it is seen as a female dominated profession that is unfriendly to men. If you want equality you have to have true equality and that means professions that favour women need to start showing some love to men and professions that favour men need to start showing some love to women.
This is why I hate the term feminism and instead prefer egalitarianism instead. It is a much more appropriate word to use.
Positive discrimination is not the answer though!
I remember reading a study a while back which took all these things into consideration and the result was that there is a pay gap but its only a few % points. Even with that they concluded that its not proof that this is due to gender discrimination but could have to do with factors that are difficult to take into consideration i.e pay negotiations, men being more confident to ask for pay rises etc
Heh
With 90% of nurses, and around 50% of doctors, being women you might find that you have to spend a lot less on recruiting more of them if you just give the existing ones an easier path to staying in position. Like by subsidising childcare.
Or share articles on social media 'for awareness' and feel like they are making a difference.
I know a few of these people, not specifically feminists but amongst other circles.
It fits quite nicely into the narrative that women are treated differently in the workplace, which feminism seeks to correct.
Feminism seeks equality. The movement concentrates on highlighting the issues women face, but the flipside is the pressures specific to men, which would also be reduced by a move to more equality and less gender-stereotyping in all forms.
Heh
With 90% of nurses, and around 50% of doctors, being women you might find that you have to spend a lot less on recruiting more of them if you just give the existing ones an easier path to staying in position. Like by subsidising childcare.
Fair point. I wonder what the cost would be for free child care from the age of 1-5 years.