Income tax must rise 3p to stop NHS 'staggering from year to year'

danielanthony · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:30

EDIT: Can we have a poll to see who would pay an additional 3p on all tax bands to fund the NHS? Perhaps have some sort of banding to show who it'll cost <£1000 per year vs those it'll cost >£1000 per year.

EDIT 2: The first article says income tax rates need to rise by 8p across all bands to meet the EU-15 average spending on health care.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/...e-3p-to-stop-nhs-staggering-from-year-to-year

Looks like its time for people to put their hands in their pockets to pay for a sustainable NHS.

Before there is a lot of bashing of bankers/footballers/well paid people, consider this:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...13877/distributional_analysis_budget_2015.pdf

* On average, the 20% of households with the lowest income receive almost 5 times as much support from public spending as they contribute in tax.

* The 20% of households with the highest income contributed three and a half times as much in tax as they received from public spending – this has now increased to almost 4 times as much.

If this 3p rise is implemented, then it'll be doctors and other well paid professionals who will pay the most - effectively a pay cut - so will there be strikes or a 'brain drain'?

Compounded by the changes to pension allowances for high earners, will we have any professionals left?

Thousands of doctors will take early retirement because of new pension rules being introduced by the Government, a report has warned. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ush-doctors-and-dentists-to-retire-early.html

My opinion is that we should implement a modest top-up fee system to reduce demand on the NHS, this is what many other European countries have introduced. It seems though that paying for it via direct taxation will actually cost doctors more than the people using the service, thus encouraging them to retire early or move to lower tax countries.

chris_h · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:33

before increasing taxes, they should charge the immigrants to use the NHS until they have paid in for several years.

My partner has worked in the NHS for years, and is currently working in a hospital. The shear amount of foreign borns has gone beyond what we can afford.

Tunney · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:35

I'd be happy to pay an extra 3p income tax if I meant a sustainable healthcare system that's free at the point of delivery for all and free from privatisation. I'm a great believer in investment in = results out.

Kemik · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:37

chris_h said:
before increasing taxes, they should charge the immigrants to use the NHS until they have paid in for several years.

How many immigrants do you think there are? Now how many would you say use the NHS? Finally, how would you administer it, ensure you get the money and how much would all that cost vs raise?

Cosimo · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:37

Pigs will fly before such an increase is implemented.

danielanthony · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:38

chris_h said:
before increasing taxes, they should charge the immigrants to use the NHS until they have paid in for several years.

But I work with a lot of non-UK people who will comfortably fit into the top 20% of earners bracket and therefore be contributing x4 as much as they take out.

The problem is that the NHS is a 'free' resource and there is no requirement for people to restrict their usage. If there was a cost attached, an increase in demand would be reflected via a direct increase in funding.

Haggisman · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:40

chris_h said:
before increasing taxes, they should charge the immigrants to use the NHS until they have paid in for several years.

My partner has worked in the NHS for years, and is currently working in a hospital. The shear amount of foreign borns has gone beyond what we can afford.

Whilst I agree in principle, what's the alternative - letting people die in the street if they can't afford it? Is that really the kind of country we want to live in?

chris_h · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:40

Kemik said:
How many immigrants do you think there are? Now how many would you say use the NHS? Finally, how would you administer it, ensure you get the money and how much would all that cost vs raise?

I don't work for the office of national statistics sorry. I would be in favour of an insurance type system, similar to what my mother does in Australia. She even has to pay for an ambulance on her insurance!

llamadal · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:40

Charge health tourists / reduce middle management / agency should be contingency, not reliance with better frameworks in place or better still, scrap frameworks set rates with no exceptions combined with directly employed auditors / workforce directors and resourcing managers do more proactive recruitment rather than being lazy in leaving it to someone else.

Won't solve the problem overnight but would go a hell of a long way to dealing with the debt.

scorza · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:40

Tunney said:
I'd be happy to pay an extra 3p income tax if I meant a sustainable healthcare system that's free at the point of delivery for all and free from privatisation. I'm a great believer in investment in = results out.

Agreed. Only way to run the NHS is to adequately fund it, the Labour government did this, and we started to see some improvements but then the Tories came in with their cuts and reforms demanded by US health insurance companies and we're back in a state of perpetual crisis.

Skeeter · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:42

chris_h said:
before increasing taxes, they should charge the immigrants to use the NHS until they have paid in for several years.

My partner has worked in the NHS for years, and is currently working in a hospital. The shear amount of foreign borns has gone beyond what we can afford.

Under this proposal, what would be the minimum amount of time you would need to pay tax before the NHS is free at the point of use for you?

UTmaniac · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:42

I'm curious as to how much these outside companies with fingers in the NHS pie are effectively draining NHS funds.

neil_g · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:44

chris_h said:
I don't work for the office of national statistics sorry. I would be in favour of an insurance type system, similar to what my mother does in Australia. She even has to pay for an ambulance on her insurance!

what if you cant afford insurance?

Wazz-1 · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:44

Cosimo said:
Pigs will fly before such an increase is implemented.

danielanthony · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:45

Cosimo said:
Pigs will fly before such an increase is implemented.

Why? They've already reduced the pension contribution limit, increased NI for the 40% tax band, removed child benefit for higher earners, in the process of making changes to dividend taxation....

Hitting professionals in the pocket is much easier than making more cuts to public services nowadays. I just wonder how long it can go one for, I'm certainly not as motivated to get my next payrise as I once was due to looking at a 60% marginal rate of income tax. In fact, I've been looking at lower paid jobs with 35 hour weeks and 40 day holiday allowances as I wouldn't loose that much overall.

Housey · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:48

There is so much wrong with the infrastructure and use of the NHS that simply adding 3p to our tax bill will not solve anything. It needs to be broken down and started again, which would cost us massively in the short term by make the foundations better for generations to come. We can't keep putting sticking plasters on our core infrastructure.

danielanthony · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:50

Tunney said:
I'd be happy to pay an extra 3p income tax if I meant a sustainable healthcare system that's free at the point of delivery for all and free from privatisation. I'm a great believer in investment in = results out.

Thats great, but might only cost you £500 per year but might cost me £2000.

You might have no children/mortgage, whereas I might have 4 children and live in the South East which means having a gigantic mortgage compared to living up north.

chris_h · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:53

Skeeter said:
Under this proposal, what would be the minimum amount of time you would need to pay tax before the NHS is free at the point of use for you?

I would suggest 3 years, similar to the benefits for migrants which was suggested a couple years back.

If my mum can't afford it, she doesn't get it!

Skeeter · 18 Feb 2016 at 11:55

chris_h said:
I would suggest 3 years, similar to the benefits for migrants which was suggested a couple years back.

If my mum can't afford it, she doesn't get it!

So nobody would be able to use the NHS free at the point of delivery until they are about 19, at the earliest?

Tunney · 18 Feb 2016 at 12:00

danielanthony said:
Thats great, but might only cost you £500 per year but might cost me £2000.

You might have no children/mortgage, whereas I might have 4 children and live in the South East which means having a gigantic mortgage compared to living up north.

A 3% increase in income tax would cost me significantly more than £500 a year, I own a house (with mortgage) in central-ish London and I have a baby.

I still want a well-funded NHS, even if I have to pay a disproportionately large amount for it.