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Everyone calm down : It is amazing how short memories are

To be honest all the OP has done is create yet another thread about the new cards which will contain all the usual claptrap.
 
I fully agree with OP, but what's even more ridiculous is how people take this sales pitch marketing hype and have used that to totally devalue the 980Ti to near 960 prices!! It's absolutely laughable, but there are people on these forums who GENUINELY believe the 980Ti is now a £200 card. Sad.
 
Catanonia said:
Yup this is what I was getting at. Go by history and the % gains from AMD and nVidia between generations and that is probably what we will get.

For VR with single pass stereo maybe more if the game is coded to use the new single pass stereo which of course many will not be and not the headline of what the sales guys says.
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The headlines still make sense though, a 1080 will be faster than a 980Ti. That is expected from a generational jump and has been shown time and time again.

When you see stuff like faster than 980 SLI that is likely true in the real world since SLI doesn't scale more than 50% in most games. Take an average of 12 games , including all the latest DX12 games and it is most likely that the 1080 is faster than 980SLI, just. That is all expected form the architecture improvements, die shrink, clock speeds, memory bandwidth etc.
 
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The 1080 has 2560 Pascal cores, has a stock boost of 1733mhz, rated at 9Tflops and GDDR5x. The 980 has 2048 maxwell cores, a stock boost of 1216mhz, rated at less than 5Tflops and normal GDDR5.

Why do people find it so hard to believe that it will match 980 sli performance and also easily surpass a 980Ti? :confused:

It clearly will, even without much IPC improvment.
 
Legend said:
I fully agree with OP, but what's even more ridiculous is how people take this sales pitch marketing hype and have used that to totally devalue the 980Ti to near 960 prices!! It's absolutely laughable, but there are people on these forums who GENUINELY believe the 980Ti is now a £200 card. Sad.
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people doing that have a vested interest in undervaluing the 980Ti so they can pick it up cheap off the MM. OCUk should start deleting those posts.
 
If you can buy a new 1080 FE for 600 pounds with custom cards at 550 pounds, then I would say a 980Ti second hand is worth 400 pounds or so. My 980Ti brand new was 599.

It is the usual story, but not sure why some people would think a 980 Ti is only worth 200 pounds?
 
But the reviews are coming in like 1 week ? and the preorders dont seem to have started yet, at least on this site, not sure what the issue is, I remember with the Fury X there was a much longer wait between when they first showed the card and when the reviews came out, it was like 1 or 2 monthes
 
varkanoid said:
To be honest all the OP has done is create yet another thread about the new cards which will contain all the usual claptrap.
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Unfortunately it has already happened.

But I was trying to remind people of previous threads throughout the years and the egg on faces it has caused.

I am also reminding people of the sales hype, selected figures and obvious (to me) missing facts about the new technologies which many are just "ignoring".

2xfaster in certain coded VR applications vs a real 2x times faster is a big oversight by many when discussing. (Ignore the sales carp and this is what is being said)

I too want to read about the new cards, but spend more time sifting the carp from the intelligent conversations about these new cards.

Either way, I am excited too, just realistic and not gullible to take everything from a global sales pitch says and use that as a basis for fact.


My personal beliefs.

Standard 1080 will be 30% quicker than a standard 980 in all circumstances unless it is a special coded VR game to make use of the new Single Pass Stereo. If it is one of the specially coded VR games, then it "may" be as quoted against the SLI 980 and Titan, but that is a BIG IF.
 
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NirK said:
I wonder if the billons of research and years of research etc. they were saying about, actually includes all the research they did on maxwell as well.
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Well, I think for it to be $billions it has to include the cumulative from around Kepler if not earlier, not just Maxwell.

A quick google finds this article from last December:
http://www.pcgamesn.com/intel-spend...er-but-how-do-nvidia-and-amds-figures-compare
Which gives the following per quarter:
Intel $2900 million
Nvidia $329 million
AMD $241 million

So, per year Nvidia's total R&D might be over $1 billion but that includes everything: Tegra, automotive etc. There is simply no way that Pascal cost $billions on its own. Especially since from the 1080 figures, Pascal doesn't seem to show much improvements except for its massive (and impressive) clock speed, as shaders per clock the claimed performance is about the same as Maxwell 980.
(2048 shaders /1126Mhz * 2560 shaders * 1607Mhz = 1.8 times as fast as 980 which about where Nvidia claimed the 1080 performance to be .)

So as usual, Nvidia is good at marketing and hype. Nothing new there.

Still, once the review embargo lifts it will be interesting to see which sites actually do proper reviews and which are basically PR mouthpieces. Anyone who only mentions performance versus 980Ti stock and ignores max overclocking vs max overclocked performance would be doing their readers a disservice (but probably continue to get lots of freebies from Nvidia PR events).
 
Lokken86 said:
The fact that they said a 1080 will beat 980 sli tells me the performance is equal to a 980ti oc as some of those highly oc ones like the g1 can do this. It just sounds more impressive to say >980sli than =980ti oc.
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It goes both way though...it's down to interpretation of SLI at 100% performance scaling vs rubbish scaling. A single 980Ti is already "beating" 980sli in titles with poor scaling :p

It's not as clear cut if they are not comparing to single GPU card.
 
KompuKare said:
Anyone who only mentions performance versus 980Ti stock and ignores max overclocking vs max overclocked performance would be doing their readers a disservice (but probably continue to get lots of freebies from Nvidia PR events).
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Even that isn't so simple as max OC 980ti v 1080 might be close in say DX11 or early DX12 games but could be a much bigger gap in games that push DX12 more.
 
As stated its all about scaling. The games they tested may have had 99% scaling. They may have not. In the majority of games 980 SLI even at stock vs overclocked Ti. The 980s are still faster by a nice margin.

Jen Hsun specifically mentioned both the 1080 and 1070 being "faster than Titan X". It would be a poor reveal if the 1080 is barely faster.

Only a week or so until some meaningful reviews and actual benchmarks. Then we will see.
 
WesleyBurns said:
If you can buy a new 1080 FE for 600 pounds with custom cards at 550 pounds, then I would say a 980Ti second hand is worth 400 pounds or so. My 980Ti brand new was 599.

It is the usual story, but not sure why some people would think a 980 Ti is only worth 200 pounds?
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You're forgetting the 1070 though, which also beats the 980Ti, and is supposedly only going to be £300, and Polaris, which some people are saying will match the Ti, but will only be around £200, so a second hand old 980Ti, thats slower than a brand new £300 1070, and a match for a brand new Polaris at £200, wont be worth £400, it'll have to be under £200.
 
LoadsaMoney said:
You're forgetting the 1070 though, which also beats the 980Ti, and is supposedly only going to be £300, and Polaris, which some people are saying will match the Ti, but will only be around £200, so a second hand old 980Ti, thats slower than a brand new £300 1070, and a match for a brand new Polaris at £200, wont be worth £400, it'll have to be under £200.
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Exactly.

All depends on the 1070 performance and pricing.

If someone asks you for advice on whether to buy a £250 second-hand 980Ti with little warranty left, maybe not even transferable, or a £325 new 1070 with full warranty that slightly outperforms the 980Ti, you're generally not going to suggest the 980Ti is a better deal at that close a price.
 
Catanonia said:
TLDR : You are not missing much, move on.

All this talk of x2 x3 perfromance figures on the new Pascals, all this arguing on all the threads I am reading. 1080 beats 2 x 980, 1080 therefore must beat a 980ti.

Apples vs Pears

Some of us have very short memories on previous releases by AMD and nVidia and the disappointments when the real bench marks were done.

Some things that are being missed out of conversations and the arguments in the threads are

1. In all of the nVidia presentation graphs the distinct lack of 980ti comparisons. Why, to make things look better perhaps ?
2. VR performance mixed in with none VR performance due to Single Pass Stereo VR so inflating the figures. Maybe why a 1080 is better than 980 SLI : Was done deliberately?.
3. No information on what was tested and how or what over clocks if any where used. Again deliberate ?
4. Selected performance figures as per sales patter to drive hype. Standard sales pitching per chance ?
5. Will the new technologies (Multi View Port / Single Pass Stereo) work out of the box with any game or does the game need coding for it. Again nothing said for a reason? If i was that good and worked out of the box, why not say so?

Please remember that the nVidia presentation was a sales pitch with selected figures and quotes to make something look amazing and many people are being taken for a ride going along with the sales hype.

Obviously we have no "proper" information until real testers get their hands on the cards and do proper benches.

but

I urge you to remember this is sales hype and what on average is the % gain from one generation of a card to another in the past and the disappointment when it actual hits our rigs.

I am excited too about getting a new card to replace my 980 for VR, but I am also realistic.
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Well said my thoughts exactly :)
 
Talking about short memories, what ever happened to Project 'Denver'? And all the hype the nvidia crowd had around it unloading all the DX11 driver overhead to an ARM core that was on the gpu?

I remember a lot of people getting salty over it when others said it would never happen.
 
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