shooting in gay club orlando

[cheesyboy]

The point I am getting at is that the Gun shop owner is coming under the media spotlight for selling Mateen the Guns that he used to carry out the massacre.

The Gun shop owner is saying that he followed all the relevant FBI etc rules.

But really, what else could he have done?

Had he refused to sell the guns because he didn't like Mateens face then he would have, no doubt, come under criticism for that (and might even have ended up, ironically, with the ACLU on his case)

Well if that (gun dealer being under the pump) is the case, then that really is a stupid line of thinking on a wider scale.

Gun dealers gonna deal. If you don't want deranged killers to buy assault weapons over the counter, then don't sell assault weapons over the counter. You can't expect a shopkeeper to make the distinction.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

As an aside,

I wonder what would have happened(To the Gun dealer) had the Gun dealer he bought his guns from refused to serve him on the grounds that he was a bit brown?

What relevance is that to anyone or anything?

Are you suggesting that because of ethnicity he shouldn't have been sold a gun or that gun dealers should have the right to refuse sale for those reasons over a legitimate fear?

What would probably happen is a ****storm with people saying 'what decade is that guy living in?' and rightly so!

The point I am getting at is that the Gun shop owner is coming under the media spotlight for selling Mateen the Guns that he used to carry out the massacre.

The Gun shop owner is saying that he followed all the relevant FBI etc rules.

But really, what else could he have done?

Had he refused to sell the guns because he didn't like Mateens face then he would have, no doubt, come under criticism for that (and might even have ended up, ironically, with the ACLU on his case)

He has the right to not sell to the guy because he thought he may be dangerous. You can refuse to sell controlled goods on suspicion of an act eg. you can refuse to sell controlled medicine due to suspicion that the customer is an addict or refuse to sell weapons on suspicion that the customer is potentially dangerous.

 

[Orionaut]

What relevance is that to anyone or anything?

Are you suggesting that because of ethnicity he shouldn't have been sold a gun or that gun dealers should have the right to refuse sale for those reasons over a legitimate fear?

What would probably happen is a ****storm with people saying 'what decade is that guy living in?' and rightly so!

As I just said, the relevance is that the Gun shop owner is coming under criticism for having sold him the guns.

 

[Sega Mega Dave]

Does this country still think carrying a gun makes them free?

Jesus wept I've seen more maturity on a children's playground. Backwards bunch. They wonder why most countries find them to be a laughing stock.

FREEDOM!!!

 

[SkodaMart]

There's nothing the gets a 'Merican more angry than threatening to take his assault weapons away.
Guns serve one purpose to kill.

Guns in 'merica should be limited to hand guns - if they insist on keeping the right to defend your own property etc.

It would have been impossible to kill or injure over 100 people with a handgun.

Banning guns won't stop terror attacks as the military and criminals will always have access to them, but I do feel it's insane selling assault weapons, especially to people with previous FBI history.

 

[cheesyboy]

There's nothing the gets a 'Merican more angry than threatening to take his assault weapons away.
Guns serve one purpose to kill.

Guns in 'merica should be limited to hand guns - if they insist on keeping the right to defend your own property etc.

It would have been impossible to kill or injure over 100 people with a handgun.

Banning guns won't stop terror attacks as the milatary and criminals will always have access to them, but I do feel it's insane selling assault weapons, especially to people with previous FBI history.

Should probably limit to rifles and shotguns, really. Baby steps though.

And limiting access to guns does stop a lot of criminal deaths - it's not like we get lots of bad guys with guns murdering the population here in the UK is it. Our criminal fraternity isn't completely gunned up, but America's..... is. How odd.

 

[SkodaMart]

Just out of interest, I wonder what the current level of mental illness is in the USA?
If it's anything like the UK, anxiety, depression, etc.
Open gun sales are insanity, but any rational person already knows that.

I do however find it hypocritical that we are taught to respect life and murder is the ultimate sin..

Right up to the point the government declares a war, gives you guns and society calls you a coward for refusing to use them.

Human race is a mess and the above is the reason I'm not really bothered if they ban them or not.

 

[mjt]

If only...

 

[RoboCod]

Are you sure about that?

Absolutely. The term and meaning of Radicalisation is one drummed up by the media. It's actually just lazy and sloppy journalism and everyone has just sucked that concept up. Radicalisation is an unproven and innacurate excuse that fosters an "us" and "them" attitude.

Further, the media focuses on the lunatic fringe, the 1%, the extreme and the violence. This then detracts from the vast majority of non-violent supporters and sympathisers who are ignored and marginalised. In actual fact we need to understand the social organisation and communication of those young people who have become socially disengaged. We need to understand that the lunatic fringe are a tiny % atop a large pyramid that dilutes right down to the majority of non violent sympathisers.

We need to understand that you don't have to be a radicalised violent Muslim to indirectly support the extreme violent Muslims. Simply sitting and observing their forums and discussion it's clear to see that very few mean malice. It's stark that the majority of them actually feel they are speaking out/acting out of love!

If we can take the steps to understand the process then we can take the steps to engage with the disengaged and then prevent them from becoming that way in the first place. You don't have to be Muslim to feel disengaged with society, many of our youth do.

Alas, rants about banning religion and the general lack of understanding by our own majority simply hinders any resolution to the problem. It's a long road!

 

[RoboCod]

Myths of Radicalisation

 

[Felon]

Absolutely. The term and meaning of Radicalisation is one drummed up by the media. It's actually just lazy and sloppy journalism and everyone has just sucked that concept up. Radicalisation is an unproven and innacurate excuse that fosters an "us" and "them" attitude.

Further, the media focuses on the lunatic fringe, the 1%, the extreme and the violence. This then detracts from the vast majority of non-violent supporters and sympathisers who are ignored and marginalised. In actual fact we need to understand the social organisation and communication of those young people who have become socially disengaged. We need to understand that the lunatic fringe are a tiny % atop a large pyramid that dilutes right down to the majority of non violent sympathisers.

We need to understand that you don't have to be a radicalised violent Muslim to indirectly support the extreme violent Muslims. Simply sitting and observing their forums and discussion it's clear to see that very few mean malice. It's stark that the majority of them actually feel they are speaking out/acting out of love!

If we can take the steps to understand the process then we can take the steps to engage with the disengaged and then prevent them from becoming that way in the first place. You don't have to be Muslim to feel disengaged with society, many of our youth do.

Alas, rants about banning religion and the general lack of understanding by our own majority simply hinders any resolution to the problem. It's a long road!

One of the best posts I've read so far,

 

[krooton]

What would probably happen is a ****storm with people saying 'what decade is that guy living in?' and rightly so!

Replace decade with century, and that's pretty much how I feel about the US in relation to it's gun laws.

 

[ThestigGT999]

 

[do_ron_ron]

If only...

I like that. You are putting common sense against profits in America though and guess which side will always win.

 

[enkoda]

On a side note, it appears share prices in US gun companies have risen:

Smith & Wesson shares closed up 6.9% while competitor Sturm, Ruger and Company saw its shares finish up 8.5%.

Shares in US firearm manufacturers typically rise after a mass shooting.

Investors predict that buyers will worry about tougher gun laws being introduced and therefore gun sales will increase.

The mentality of a nation that restricts sales of over-the-counter medication to one packet per person yet will sell a virtually unlimited amount of ammo is beyond comprehension.

There is only one thing that we can do now - wait for the next mass shooting.

 

[Felon]

If only...

I had a chat with a group of 3 Americans, week before last - all around my age (mid 30s) all with decent jobs, (one was an Oncologist) and they came across as being totally frustrated by their own country and this whole gun situation, and all had views similar to the contents of your link, and various comparisons to how ridiculous the current situation is, they seemed more embarrassed by it than anything else.

 

[Arazi]

And this ladies and gentlemen is why dirst year psychology students should never be alowed near anything to do with human beings.

"Looking at his body language it's highly likely this man is actually homosexual "


Unless his body language was ******* off a man thats such a painfully retarded statement.

I give up with him, he has an answer for everything, and genuinely thinks opinions like the above are correct.

Body language = minces = gay, top work.

 

[Arazi]

So now it emerges that Mateen's attack might have been less about Islam and more about the failure to come to terms with his own sexuality:



(Source).

Yes and you and others like you are the first to post stories claiming that everything else is to blame but Islam.

And this story has already been mentioned on here earlier, did you not read the thread fully?

As usual.

 

[Arazi]

And why couldn't he be openly gay? Islam, perhaps?

No two ways about it.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

simplistic view is simplistic.

You overlook that he was mentally ill and therefore took a abnormal view on homosexuals despite being one. He projected his guilt onto other people and punished them to counterbalance what he thought was his own sins.

People are free to be homophobic or racist but they are not free to act on it however they wish. His father didn't go round killing people and neither do any of the followers of Islam that i know.

A concept or idea doesn't stop you from doing anything on its own. He stopped himself from being openly gay, the ideology he attributed it to was Islam but the choice was his and so was the idea. There are many cultures and religions that are considered homophobic but its people who are homophobic not fairy tales. You can be homophobic by telling a fairy tale that preaches homophobia but the fairy tale itself is not homophobic.