What were the advantages in being in the EU?

Evangelion said:
We are a family of four, and our British passports will be almost worthless without free movement throughout the Schengen Area.
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Are you thinking of working in each of the countries in the Schengen area? If not then I don't think you understand freedom of movement.

Bit of a difference between letting people here under say a visa waiver for tourism purposes and letting uncontrolled migration for residency/work purposes that freedom of movement allows.
 
Rroff said:
There are a few industries that can play on the fact that people want to progress to effectively coerce people into signing out of it but for a lot of the more menial work, where often people don't have the luxury of being able to tell the employer to shove it if they aren't getting fair overtime, etc. it has gone a long way to stopping exploitation. The interesting thing is that a good percentage of the leave voters are ones that will be directly affected if the WTD and other regulations are removed but sadly there are a lot that will be affected that didn't vote for it either.

That said the EU also tied a lot of companies up in unnecessary red tape so it isn't a completely one sided story.
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The biggest leave voters are going to be some of the hardest hit... I'm still baffled by it yet my friends still shout leave following the numpties.
 
davewhite04 said:
Your passport won't be useless. Europe is actually the continent we reside in.
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I didn't say 'useless', I said 'virtually useless.' This is hyperbole of course, but I also made it clear that I'm referring to exclusion from the Schengen Area. That might not be a problem for those of you who've never travelled outside the UK, but for people like me with family in the UK, Ireland and Germany, it's an important consideration.

I also have family, some elderly and I share none of your worries. The government state pension is safe. If they have private pensions, they will be backed by under writers.
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They have no private pensions and they're still paying off their mortgage. The state pension will not be enough to cover this, so my father in law is still working. Our extended family is trying to work out what we can do to help them before they're faced with the prospect of giving up their house for a soulless care home.

Devon will probably(as it's one of the nicest places in England) have a boom in its holiday(can't think of correct word) business, which will be a big bonus to local small business and the council economy.
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I'll believe that when I see it. Anyway, my father in law doesn't work in any tourism related industries so it won't help him even if it does happen.
 
davewhite04 said:
Now that we've decided to leave the EU I just want to get a grasp on what is angering the ex-remain camp.

The only thing that affects me is I'll probably have to apply for an updated passport/driving license once we cut ties.

How does it affect you?
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amigafan2003 said:
Would it not have been a good idea to ask these questions BEFORE the referendum?
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This was one of my issues with the whole campaigns ... you have the Leave side giving all these bad things about being in the EU and going on about immigration etc and then you had the Remain side going on how if we left the sky would fall and WWIII would start within 20mins.

I didn't see anything from the Remain side saying the pro's of being in the EU ... only the cons of what the Leave side were saying.

The Leave side had Farage ... you can't beat him when it comes to stoking fear and hatred so the Reamin side going with the "fear these things if Leave win" was entirely the wrong strategy to take.
 
Just a few for a start:

Having a say and more importantly a veto on what goes on, on our continent and with our closet neighbours. Important considering within the last 100 years we have had two huge world wars that started in the centre of Europe.

Freedom to live and work in 28 countries in Europe.

Access to a tariff free, free EU market.

An opportunity to help build the path to peaceful globalisation.

Relative economic stability - good for UK investment and the financial markets.
 
I actually don't think much will change with the free movement TBH. There's to much at stake to change it now. The out camp never said they would STOP immigration (even UKIP), only stop people abusing our system. People are being hypercritical about nothing.

I'm not to worried about trade either, deals will be made. One of the advantages of being out is cheaper imports/exports from non-EU countries as well.

There's ups and downs to being in or out. The problem with the EU is it's always been one size fits all with no flexibility.
 
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dowie said:
Are you thinking of working in each of the countries in the Schengen area?
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Not each, but certainly at least one. The ability to travel and take up residence without a visa is wonderfully liberating. Even if I wasn't working in a Schengen country, the freedom to travel through them without restrictions or visas is immeasurable. You probably don't appreciate this if you've never left the UK to visit a non-EU country.

Bit of a difference between letting people here under say a visa waiver for tourism purposes and letting uncontrolled migration for residency/work purposes that freedom of movement allows.
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Movement under the Schengen agreement was never 'uncontrolled.' Many EU member states have introduced quotas and transitional controls.
 
Biggest reasons for me are economic and being part of the trading bloc/single market simply makes more sense. The biggest knock on effect that I am closest to is that technology suppliers for some of the transport industries in this country are based in other EU countries. If we do indeed lose access to this trading bloc to stop free movement (as many want to do) then the technology coming into this country to enable infrastructure upgrades will simply get more expensive. The cost will just be passed onto the general public in public transport costs. Will there be as much money to even invest in transport infrastructure - there were already a lot of cuts made.

Another big one for me is the Snoopers Charter and other such legislation that has the potential of being blocked by the EU - I've always maintained that our government needs the external influence to regulate it.

At EU level they always appear to be in favour of things that might have put us at a disadvantage or diminish our rights as normal people in favour of big business (e.g. working time directive). At a national level they push the limits of what regulations have been put in place by the EU that again don't seem to be in the interests of the people (e.g. unfair dismissal in employment changes)
 
Jono8 said:
Just a few for a start:

Having a say and more importantly a veto on what goes on, on our continent and with our closet neighbours. Important considering within the last 100 years we have had two huge world wars that started in the centre of Europe.

Freedom to live and work in 28 countries in Europe.

Access to a tariff free, free EU market.

An opportunity to help build the path to peaceful globalisation.

Relative economic stability - good for UK investment and the financial markets.
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you probably still can live and work there if you've got relevant skills

we've got a different currency to the EUR, tariffs are low and a bit moot when exchange rates fluctuate... being able to agree to trade deals unilaterally with the rest of the world is rather nice too

as for economic stability, growth in the EU is sluggish and a whole bunch of countries have serious economic problem they're unwilling to make significant steps to change, youth unemployment is out of control in southern European countries and the chances of them turning into the next Greece is a real possibility... why tie ourselves down to our immediate neighbours when we now live in a global economy and could start increasing trade with the rest of the world
 
Evangelion said:
Not each, but certainly at least one. The ability to travel and take up residence without a visa is wonderfully liberating. Even if I wasn't working in a Schengen country, the freedom to travel through them without restrictions or visas is immeasurable. You probably don't appreciate this if you've never left the UK to visit a non-EU country.

Movement under the Schengen agreement was never 'uncontrolled.' Many EU member states have introduced quotas and transitional controls.
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Only temporary quotas...

Yet you live in Australia and currently don't have freedom of movement with all your Asian neighbours. Why are you not letting Indonesians free access to live and work in Australia and fish in your waters?
 
Nasher said:
I actually don't think much will change with the free movement TBH. There's to much at stake to change it now.

I'm not to worried about trade either, deals will be made. One of the advantages of being out is cheaper imports from non-EU countries.
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Then why the hell did we bother to go through all this? Those two things are the cornerstones of EU membership anyway.

*sigh*
 
The fundamentals of the EU free trade between neighbouring countries of goods, services, capital and people and in deed the laws that back those up.

First and foremost it is about trade and making trade between 2(or 50+)countries easier.
No import / export taxes shared safety regulations etc.

So if you sell Fridges in the EU your fridge will be of at least the same safety standards etc as your competitors, if you sell food it has to meet certain safety standards etc but as long as you meet those standards you can sell to anybody in the EU with no other restrictions.

The freedom of movement is exactly the same thing ! if you are a plumber you can move to Spain and be a plumber so skilled workers can go where they are needed most.
(You can consider tourism in this as it is very easy to holiday in Europe as in fact it is to retire in another country if you can afford it).

The rules and regulations that come out are invariably an attempt to enforce the above and try to provide a level playing field for all members but do indeed extend in to the wellbeing of the population.

The EU also has very strict rules for entry that very heavily favour co operation , Democracy and the Human rights of the member states.

On the international stage the EU as a block is far stronger than any individual member could ever hope to be.

Then there is research in to things like science, agriculture , medicine expensive to implement for individual nations but extremely important.

Nobody I think would claim the EU is perfect and in fact has many problems but very few of those problems were the real focus of our referendum.
 
davewhite04 said:
Now that we've decided to leave the EU I just want to get a grasp on what is angering the ex-remain camp.

The only thing that affects me is I'll probably have to apply for an updated passport/driving license once we cut ties.

How does it affect you?
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So you voted Leave but you have no idea what the advantages were of being part of the EU?

This is sad on so many levels it leaves me speechless really. You voted against something you haven't even bothered to research fully?

This of course is as much a failure of the Remain campaign who were terrible at getting across the advantages of being in the EU and focused almost exclusively on scaremongering.

Well, if you think that the only way Brexit will affect you is an updated passport and driving license you're in for a real shock.

I hope you're very passionate about living outside the EU because you're going to need a lot of belief, resolution and willpower to get through the economic, social and logistical turmoil ahead.

Even if in the long term (like 10 years time) Britain is a better place outside the EU, in the short to medium term it won't be. Even the Leave campaigners recognise this.

Currently no-one has a plan for how to proceed. Brexit have no plans as they didn't expect to win (it was a big political game for Boris and Gove) and are now keeping a low profile. The government have no plans as they didn't expect to lose, arrogantly thinking they could scare everyone into remaining.

It's a shambles all round. So no, I don't think that the only thing you have to worry about is the inconvenience of renewing your passport and driving license. Time to wise up, whatever side of the vote you were on.
 
Jono8 said:
Just a few for a start:

Having a say and more importantly a veto on what goes on, on our continent and with our closet neighbours. Important considering within the last 100 years we have had two huge world wars that started in the centre of Europe.
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So do you think we needed to be in the EU to stop WW3? We have no ill will towards Europe, and I don't actually think WW3 could be triggered by this, in fact it's alarming to think that people have been feeling this way.

Freedom to live and work in 28 countries in Europe.
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You will still be able to get a job anywhere in the world, you may need a sponsor or a work visa but that is it. What country do you want to work in?

Access to a tariff free, free EU market.
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How does this affect you? This works both ways by the way.

An opportunity to help build the path to peaceful globalisation.
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I don't think we need the EU for peace on Earth. In fact they were talking about forming an EU Army, does that sound peaceful to you?

Relative economic stability - good for UK investment and the financial markets.
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If anything, we have been propping up the EU, look at how the markets closed on Friday, and follow them in the coming months.
 
Evangelion said:
Not each, but certainly at least one. The ability to travel and take up residence without a visa is wonderfully liberating. Even if I wasn't working in a Schengen country, the freedom to travel through them without restrictions or visas is immeasurable. You probably don't appreciate this if you've never left the UK to visit a non-EU country.
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It is very likely we will still end up with visa free travel to the EU for tourism and business(much like the US has). Do you really think Spain, Portugal and Greece will want to see a massive drop in British tourists?
 
Oh and as a consequence of leaving, I am also concerned about safety - not globally particularly, but at home in this country.

The fact is that the campaigning rhetoric has enabled a particular view on immigration and immigrants to effectively be more socially acceptable. I am worried that there will be more 'casual' racism and certainly, the perception from outside Britain is that we are not keen on people from other countries.

Being part of the EU gave us the ability to proudly say we are open to other cultures and people. That's not to say we aren't or that we have to be a part of the EU to do that, but actively exiting an arrangement like the EU is strong position to take against it.
 
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