Brexit thread - what happens next

[datalol-jack]

But they're lying to their dumbass voters and its ruining this countries democracy.

I agree. In this country's electoral system, if you want conservative or progressive policies, you have no choice but to at least mislead, get into power and then backtrack (and implement what you actually want). Hence the chagrin. Its only saving grace is the ****-blocking of extremism on either wing and tendency towards the middle, although as Thatcher showed -- it's possible to move said centre quite dramatically.

I also agree that a small fraction of his supporters don't seem to see tactics as important, other than some kind of borked entryism. I'd also point out that Labour supporters and members (like Tory supporters and members) aren't one and the same as one's voters, especially if you look at swingers, the perpetually undecided or the disenfranchised (say, the unemployed, who are treated by Corbo as working class, but as they rarely have a trade, join a union or indeed work, they have a totally different profile to the young and skilled backers he often attracts, again with mixed results).

As I said in the leadership thread, Corbo needs to do a Blair/Brown thing and fade out if possible. He really isn't helping anyone at this stage.

 

[VincentHanna]

I really do think JC's position is untenable.

He's probably less likely to go now a Tory PM has told him too. How meek would he look then?

 

[Arthur Hucksake]

Many of the voters are going to be angry now that freedom of movement is a must.

No single market access otherwise.

We need that to survive, surely.

 

[datalol-jack]

Many of the voters are going to be angry now that freedom of movement is a must.

No single market access otherwise.

We need that to survive, surely.

Well, there are survival options outside it, but they would hurt the very people who are up in arms over freedom of movement. Hence the internal friction in the Leave's camp between globalists, free-market fundamentalists and nationalists.

 

[LOAM]

Many of the voters are going to be angry now that freedom of movement is a must.

No single market access otherwise.

We need that to survive, surely.

So what exactly is "leave" bringing us then? What are we actually going to gain from all this other than less control over our own borders?

I am at a complete loss tbh.

 

[Rilot]

I really don't think Corbyn is going to go. He has the support of Labour party members and that's what he's all about. He thinks he's doing the right thing by sticking to his principles and the mandate to lead as set out by his election.
He's not going to get elected but I don't think the Labour part membership really care. They would rather have a leader who was at least slightly left wing but unelectable, than a centre-right leader who stands a chance.

 

[datalol-jack]

So what exactly is "leave" bringing us then? What are we actually going to gain from all this other than less control over our own borders?

I am at a complete loss tbh.

Being like Norway without the sovereign wealth fund or social democracy.

 

[VincentHanna]

Many of the voters are going to be angry now that freedom of movement is a must.

No single market access otherwise.

We need that to survive, surely.

Well I'm glad you seemed to have acknowledged this now.

 

[Calabi]

What astounds me with all this 'let's make Britain great' and 'take back control' preaching is that people seem to be under the illusion that it's the EU who are responsible for everything they think is wrong with the country and by somehow leaving it'll all be fixed.

Hmm...

My sister was literally blaming the EU for cold callers from India earlier. These people have gone insane.

When we go out and there's economy destruction and they suffer poverty austerity like nothing they've experienced before for years to come they will still be blaming the EU.

 

[dowie]

Being like Norway without the sovereign wealth fund or social democracy.

we've not even started negotiations and you think it is going to go completely towards the EU's terms... no movement from them at all... that isn't really how negotiations tend to work - there is usually some form of compromise reached.

 

[BuffetSlayer]

He's probably less likely to go now a Tory PM has told him too. How meek would he look then?

Yes because Dave has a brilliant track record when it comes to doing what is best for the country! lol

 

[balky12]

Many of the voters are going to be angry now that freedom of movement is a must.

Think you might be surprised. Many leave voters possibly. But not the majority of leave voters, imo. Vast majority of people I know who voted leave did so because of reasons unrelated to immigration. Anecdotal I know.

 

[Glaucus]

I really don't think Corbyn is going to go. He has the support of Labour party members and that's what he's all about. He thinks he's doing the right thing by sticking to his principles and the mandate to lead as set out by his election.
He's not going to get elected but I don't think the Labour part membership really care. They would rather have a leader who was at least slightly left wing but unelectable, than a centre-right leader who stands a chance.

which is a massive issue in a two party system like we have.
not that I think GE is likely, but if it does lets hope LD can replace labour as the 2nd main party.

 

[nine_tails]

There was always going to be freedom of movement if single market access was needed. I am not sure at what point the assumption was made that this will be possible.

 

[dowie]

I really don't think Corbyn is going to go. He has the support of Labour party members and that's what he's all about. He thinks he's doing the right thing by sticking to his principles and the mandate to lead as set out by his election.
He's not going to get elected but I don't think the Labour part membership really care. They would rather have a leader who was at least slightly left wing but unelectable, than a centre-right leader who stands a chance.

yup, that is one thing that has become apparent in the past few days - politicians are so out of touch with the population

first we've had brexit which over half the country supports but most politicians don't

now we've got Corbyn who had a huge mandate from his party but that the vast majority of Labour politicians (or at least MPs) want to get rid of

Corbyn is right to say he's not going to step down and will throw his hat in the ring again as he had such huge support from the grass roots membership last time... just because he's not the 'right choice' as far as the establishment is concerned isn't necessarily going to cut it - that is the thing about democracy, you don't always get to dictate to people re: what is good for them

ditto to the EU - the establishment thinks it is the 'wrong' decision... unfortunately for them there isn't much hope of reversing it - other than some clutching at straws arguments that we could have a general election on some remain platform or the SNP could supposedly block it...

If anything the last few days have been good for democracy and two fingers up at Brussels bureaucrats and UK politicians who'd want to ignore the will of the people under some flawed presumption that they know whats best.

 

[Rilot]

I have to say though, I'm at a loss as to who in the Labour party actually voted for Corbyn. I work in a school and all of the teachers I've spoken to (who you would expect to be quite left-leaning) can't stand him and think he has to go.

 

[Mr Jack]

Well, if 376 haven't had a proper job then the term, "most" would apply.

Like you, I cannot be bothered to try and find this out but I have no idea if it is rubbish or not.

Right, but of 19 looked at so far, 18 have had a job outside politics. Seems quite likely he's wrong, doesn't it?

 

[datalol-jack]

we've not even started negotiations and you think it is going to go completely towards the EU's terms... no movement from them at all... that isn't really how negotiations tend to work - there is usually some form of compromise reached.

See above, my other post before the one you've quoted. They will be gunning for compromises, and some thought it already being put towards a plan, but confidence is low and the leadership fight is going to be interesting. We really burned the house down at the tactically worst time possible, and Farage ranting in the EUP isn't doing many people favours. Our only real ally left is, ironically, Germany, and contrary to the tinfoils on here -- they cannot filibuster 26 other vetoes, deliver insta-treaty change and do us many favours.

We'll see how it pans out. Just hope we can get EEA, keep Scotland on these grounds and restart infrastructure investment to start settling the protest voters, clamouring for a larger piece of the pie.

 

[dowie]

I have to say though, I'm at a loss as to who in the Labour party actually voted for Corbyn. I work in a school and all of the teachers I've spoken to (who you would expect to be quite left-leaning) can't stand him and think he has to go.

Well he won a majority from each voting group so it isn't like he only got in because of say the trade unions etc.. he had a clear mandate.

Whether he's lost some popularity now and people are retrospectively claiming to have not supported him is another matter - or perhaps it is just the small sample size of people you know that is swaying things there.

 

[Werewolf]

Many of the voters are going to be angry now that freedom of movement is a must.

No single market access otherwise.

We need that to survive, surely.

And those that gave it some thought before hand pretty much knew that something like that would be the case.

IIRC all the non EU countries with free trade to the EU have to accept those conditions and more.
The exceptions from memory are a state that is basically smaller my my town (and whose entire population could fit into many football stadiums, with space to spare), and Canada which is on a completely different continent.