Brexit thread - what happens next

Jono8 · 4 Jul 2016 at 12:43

joeyjojo said:
'Independence day' is one, depending on your point of view.

Not sure what this 'hysteria' everyone is referring to is though.

Boris said it earlier, so now if you criticise the decision to leave the EU you are hysterical.

I believe the favourite used to be "salty".

Crpwned · 4 Jul 2016 at 12:44

estebanrey said:
No, it's about supporting aggressive foreign policies.

Huh, seems you don't know what jingoism means either then :confused:

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/jingoism

the extreme belief that your own country is always best, often shown in enthusiastic support for a war against another country

estebanrey · 4 Jul 2016 at 12:50

Crpwned said:
Huh, seems you don't know what jingoism means either then

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/jingoism

Eh? Your definition is the same as mine???? If you show enthusiasm for war against someone else you are, as I claimed, supporting aggressive foreign policy.

I don't see how using a term like "Independence Day" can be described as an act of aggression against any other nation and nor is causing people against Brexit to be "Hysterical" anything to do with foreign policy or relations.

You could argue at best they are forms of "blind patriotism" but as no outside nation is being hurt by Boris' words then they simply cannot be described as "jingoistic" either technically nor colloquially

Crpwned · 4 Jul 2016 at 12:57

estebanrey said:
Eh? Your definition is the same as mine???? If you show enthusiasm for war against someone else you are, as I claimed, supporting aggressive foreign policy.

Sigh....so you missed the first bit that said "the extreme belief that your own country is always best" which means that using a buzzword like 'Independence Day' could be considered Jingoistic in that context?
It states that it is often shown or expressed with supporting war or aggressive foreign policies, but not explicitly being that only.
It's not too hard to grasp now, work with me here.

Anyway, we need more buzzwords for this, I'll be mildly dissapointed if I don't see something as ludicrous as 'Hystaremain' popping up over the next few days.

Greebo · 4 Jul 2016 at 12:57

Mulder said:
If you want some outline plans for how Brexit can be implemented here we go:

[L.

Oh so there was plans then? Shame people didnt use them during the leave campaign as quite a few of them still include some freedom of movement when it has become clear now, the voters supposedly voted for closing the borders.

Chris Wilson · 4 Jul 2016 at 12:59

I'll have to listen to it later, his idea of time seems a bit off. "If you have a couple of minutes" doth not equal a 25 minute plus video

I will listen though, if only for the novelty of hearing a Scottish Leave voter's opinion!

dowie · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:02

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36702468

UKIP leader Nigel Farage stands down

Nigel Farage says he is standing down as leader of the UK Independence Party.
Mr Farage said his "political ambition has been achieved" with the UK having voted to leave the EU.
He said the party was in a "pretty good place" and said he would not change his mind about quitting as he did after the 2015 general election.
Leading UKIP was "tough at times" but "all worth it" said Mr Farage, who is also an MEP. He added that the UK needed a "Brexit prime minister".
Mr Farage said the party would campaign against "backsliding" on the UK's exit from the EU, saying he planned to see out his term in the European Parliament

Poneros · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:04

People still don't want to accept the fact that the EU won't allow access to the single-market if freedom of movement is not part of the deal? I guess it will get more real once the exit actually goes through.

leaskovski · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:04

Greebo · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:07

Poneros said:
People still don't want to accept the fact that the EU won't allow access to the single-market if freedom of movement is not part of the deal? I guess it will get more real once the exit actually goes through.

Leadsom says she doesnt want access to the single market. The UK is the 5th Largest economy and the rest of the world is 80% of the trade and is a bigger market.

So basically the coices come down to.

May - Free access to the EU Market but freedom of movement although there might be concessions/CAPS depending what she can negotiate

Leadsom - No free access to EU Market and no freedom of movement at any level - pretty much the full UKIP line. QUick and easy as nothing much to negotiate.

Darujhistan · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:10

Poneros said:
People still don't want to accept the fact that the EU won't allow access to the single-market if freedom of movement is not part of the deal? I guess it will get more real once the exit actually goes through.

Of course they're going to say that now, but what matters is what happens when 50 is triggered and exit talks really begin.

Neither side will concede anything until they have to.

dowie · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:12

Greebo said:
May - Free access to the EU Market but freedom of movement although there might be concessions/CAPS depending what she can negotiate

Leadsom - No free access to EU Market and no freedom of movement at any level - pretty much the full UKIP line. QUick and easy as nothing much to negotiate.

Fortunately May is the favorite.

(then again so was 'remain')

Darujhistan · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:13

Hopefully that's the end of UKIP. Even Carswell doesn't want to lead it.

Bonjour · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:15

Leadsom seems a ringer for Thatcher. All calm and collected, but I bet when she loses it, she proper loses it.

Tunney · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:16

Greebo said:
Leadsom - No free access to EU Market and no freedom of movement at any level - pretty much the full UKIP line. QUick and easy as nothing much to negotiate.

That's going to go down like a lead balloon in Northern Ireland. The Good Friday agreement is reliant on open borders.

Mr Jack · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:17

Darujhistan said:
Hopefully that's the end of UKIP. Even Carswell doesn't want to lead it.

My money is on Neil Hamilton as the new UKIP leader.

estebanrey · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:18

Crpwned said:
Sigh....so you missed the first bit that said "the extreme belief that your own country is always best" which means that using a buzzword like 'Independence Day' could be considered Jingoistic in that context?

Even if we only look at the colloquial (i.e. commonly misused) definition I still can't see how suggesting the UK celebrating leaving a political union could be considered an "extreme belief".

Crpwned said:
It states that it is often shown or expressed with supporting war or aggressive foreign policies, but not explicitly being that only.
It's not too hard to grasp now, work with me here.

No, it uses an example which not only fits the technical definition but also highlights the difference between 'jingoism' and 'patriotism'.

It seems to me you think there is a big overlap between the two and as such they can be used interchangeably.

Crpwned · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:24

estebanrey said:
No, it uses an example which not only fits the technical definition but also highlights the difference between 'jingoism' and 'patriotism'.

It seems to me you think there is a big overlap between the two and as such they can be used interchangeably.

I never said they could be used interchangeably but I do believe there is a certain amount of overlap with jingoism, patriotism and especially nationalism.
But if you'd don't agree that's fine, we can just agree to disagree and both recognise we're just arguing semantics here

Greebo · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:42

Bonjour said:
Leadsom seems a ringer for Thatcher. All calm and collected, but I bet when she loses it, she proper loses it.

Well civil servants say she has been the worst minister they have ever worked for

officials in the Treasury, where she worked as a junior minister from April 2014 to May 2015, have issued an extraordinary criticism of her track record in government.

“She was the worst minister we’ve ever had," one unnamed City official told the Financial Times.

“She found it difficult to understand issues or take decisions,” another said. “She was monomaniacal, seeing the EU as the source of every problem.

Oh great, just read she doesnt believe in climate change either.......

Never thought I would say this, but May for PM!!!!!!!!!!!

Demon · 4 Jul 2016 at 13:42

joeyjojo said:
Good luck to the UKs 20 trade negotiators over the next months and years. Wouldn't want their jobs.

??? What kind of thinking is that?

They will be busy, and very much in-demand, the kind of situation I'd say empowers someone with foresight to ensure they get a nicely rewarded..