Shots Fired in Munich Shopping Centre

Bazzards said:
The EU and international community should have pumped huge amounts of money into aid closer to Syria and worked with the neighboring countries. The UN has proven to be totally useless. Do we know whether the US is doing any humanitarian work?

I agree that we should be taking in some of these refugees in, but targeting the weak and vulnerable rather than all and sundry as Germany has.
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We have done exactly that as well as contributing, by far, the most money to aid and the funding of camps around the area.

The UK has nothing at all to be ashamed of.
 
D.P. said:
Europeans should be embarrassed by how little they are helping the refugee crisis.
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Second largest donor of aid to Syrian refugees is a European country (the UK)

largest aid donor is the USA

countries immediately adjacent to Syria are where the bulk of the refugees are staying

a minority of refugees (younger, fitter and generally the richer on average than most left behind in Jordan and Turkey - not to mention disproportionately male) have headed to Europe along with a whole bunch of economic migrants from North Africa, Afghanistan and Pakistan etc.. They could pay for flights for less than the cost of a place on a people smuggler's boat but airlines won't take them.

It is a really **** system and we shouldn't be encouraging them to come like that, Merkel did some damage there.

What we could and perhaps should do is implement a system whereby we take some refugees directly from Turkey and Jordan (focused mostly on families and unaccompanied children) and if we did implement such a program then start sending back anyone who tried to skip the process and fund their own trip here - but for the most part we ought to carry on providing aid for and funding those who have already reached safety in the immediate area around Syria.
 
Oh I'm not saying we should be ashamed. However there does appear to be limited amount that has been done. As DP mentioned, the world should be doing a lot more given the wealth.
 
robfosters said:
Our humanitarian obligations are impacting on the lives of our own citizens (Cologne sex attacks). It's at that point where you draw the line. Their safety and security is important, but not as important as the safety and security of our own.
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Our safety and security, as well as the value of our lives, are equal in priority and importance. I do not think that there's a strong case to condemn the majority of any particular vulnerable group for the actions of the few, or to massively change our policy in response to extremist threats and violence -- that's the extremist's main goal; nor do I think that the native population is any more or less susceptible to violent and criminal acts, which of course we rarely overgeneralise in a moral panic and which form the absolute majority of crimes committed in any given western country.

That's where you and I differ -- it's hard to terrorise data. It's easy to terrorise and agitate an individual with a preconceived bias looking for verification in cases like the recent attacks.
 
D.P. said:
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You are trying g to make out that your life is somehow more important than another innocebt human's. It's disgusting.
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Calm down please.

That also goes for others who are getting heated.
 
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Tefal said:
So why so you have all the fancy **** you do the nhs etc when there are people without clean water.

Shouldn't that come first?
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For me it would be more balanced, but I'm not the government and we do live in a democracy: a part of which means having to live with, accept and bear the effects of the decisions of representatives standing for the views different to my own. (Something the far right should learn too.)

However, we do offer foreign aid, our diplomatic staff and troops where required and the cover of universal human rights to those fleeing violence, persecution and conflict. Although our shambolic foreign policy could do with some experience, nuance and actual strategic planning, I admit. Still, not giving in to panic in the face of extremist action and looking for instant solutions and easy targets, if our debacle in Iraq has taught us anything, is the right way forward.

We have shared principles which took a long time to form and reach their universal status. We should stand by them, otherwise they are worthless and will be swept away; their replacement won't be good for anyone who isn't in a position of power.
 
I totally believe that our aid budget to these countries is well worth providing, provided of course it reaches the right people. If you pull people out of poverty and improve living conditions then the majority of the immigration issues will be eased. The world needs to educate these countries, not dictate to them and force our version of democracy on them. When a portion of the population feels that it is downtrodden, they rise up. If we as a country along with the other world powers want to reduce terrorism we have to work with the governments involved.

Although I am aware that we need to be wary that the cash is actually being used appropriately and not lining some dictators pockets, this is the real difficulty. We need to improve the conditions in the countries where these refugees/immigrants are coming from.

edit: To add to the above, if the population is happy, then the majority of problems will be resolved and the safer we will be.
 
D.P. said:
Should have stopped who?

We simply don't have the means to determine who is a terrorist and who is fleeing the very same terrorists responoble for acts like this.

What ha's happened in Munich pales to insignificance compared to what happens I Syria and fully justifies why Europe should be a cepting as many refugees as possible. And decent human sold be doing their best to accondate fleeing refugees escaping such atrocities an standing up against terrorim.

Blaming migrants is exactly what the terrorists want. The terrorists win when someone brandishes refugees or Muslims as terrorists.
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No, when do you stop, Europe can't handle the constant growth.Europe should have closed its borders. By allowing the migrants to flee you are weakening the country allowing the terrorists easier control of the country. By forcing people to stay will push them to created a counter army.
Just imagine WW2 with out the polish French etc resistance good chance the war would gone on longer.
I don't agree with the current polices they are not working, we need a new way of thinking.
 
If only he'd have taken the opportunity when it presented itself.

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robfosters said:
Oh look you lot. Just bog off and keep your heads in the sand. One of these days when you or someone you love is caught up in something like this you will soon change your tune. It's very easy to keep your liberal views when you are not affected, but they will soon change when it affects your life and puts you in danger or worse.
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robfosters said:
No it hasn't thank god. But then show me one person who has lost someone through terrorism who holds the same views as the liberals. I've had experience with young friends dying and sudden grief. Your outlook on things that contributed to their death completely change.
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Here's 3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Wilson_(peace_campaigner)

The Remembrance Day bombing (also known as the Enniskillen bombing or Poppy Day massacre [4][5]) killed 11 people and injured 64. The last victim died after lying in a coma for 13 years. The Provisional IRA planted a bomb in reading rooms behind the town's cenotaph. The device exploded during the Remembrance Sunday ceremony held to honour those who had served in the British Armed Forces.

Wilson and his daughter, Marie, were buried in rubble when the 40 lb bomb exploded. Unable to move, he held her hand and comforted her as she lay dying, her last words were, "Daddy, I love you very much". Five minutes later rescuers pulled Wilson and his daughter out from under the collapsed building. Marie never regained consciousness and died later in hospital.[6]

Wilson's response to the bombing, "I bear no ill will. I bear no grudge", was reported worldwide, becoming among the most-remembered quotations from the Troubles.[3] Whereas IRA attacks in Northern Ireland often resulted in reprisals by loyalists, Wilson's calls for forgiveness and reconciliation came to be called the Spirit of Enniskillen.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-forgive-extremist-killers-beheading-son.html

ISIS hostage Peter Kassig's grieving parents say they will forgive his extremist killers for beheading their son
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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/james-foleys-parents-prepared-forgive-4092566

James Foley's parents prepared to forgive British terrorist who beheaded him
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I have seen plenty of examples over the decades of parents forgiving the killers of their children, and have always been amazed by the strength shown.

Taking the first example of Gordon Wilson, his reaction has been attributed to one of the turning points of the whole NI conflict

The BBC would later describe the bombing as a turning point in the Troubles because the attack shook the IRA "to its core".[6][1] Pivotal to the change in attitude towards this sort of attack was Wilson's reaction to the death of his daughter. The 60-year-old draper publicly forgave those who had planted the bomb and said he would pray for them. He also begged that no-one take revenge for Marie's death and pleaded with loyalists not to do so.
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An eye for an eye will leave everyone blind. - Ghandi
 
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DP haven't you spent most of your recent years in Switzerland and now the States?

Freakbro said:
An eye for an eye will leave everyone blind. - Ghandi
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But unfortunately everyone has a breaking point and if you continually turn the other cheek you end up getting that shafted when you do crack you tend to go a bit over the top eg Jews. They don't turn the cheek anymore they use the past to justify atrocity after atrocity. Now I am sure someone will tell me that Jews have nothing to do with the actions of Israel. (note for really stupid people I never used the words 'all' or 'majority')
 
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