Summer Transfer Window 2016/17 - Rumours & Signings

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BaZ87 said:
Lots of players still haven't gone for a fraction of what Pogba's going for though. And the marketing side of this won't pay a fraction of his wages let alone put a dent into his fee. As for the fee and the implications, it's not just going to be a 1 time hit. He sets a precedent. Whenever you go for a player now Pogba's fee will be the benchmark. It's a massive gamble.

Had you been signing one of the absolute very best players in the world then you'd say it's expensive but you swollow it but Pogba? I've drawn comparrisons to the Di Maria signing before but it's very similar. Di Maria was no better than Sanchez (worse given how things have turned out), a rung or 2 below the best players in the world, yet you paid near double what Arsenal paid. He's better but there's no way Pogba's 3 x better than Xhaka for example. And we keep hearing about how good he might become - he's 23 not 17. By 23 the likes of Ronaldo and Messi were already performing at the very top level.

A very good player, potentially an excellent player and undoubtedly will improve Utd but the fee's crazy no matter how you look at it.
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Sure, because they paid a huge fee for Di Maria and since then have had to match that fee for every player they've bought? Or wait, no they didn't and the big fee set no precedent at all.

On comparing him to Ronaldo and Messi, Ronaldo's break out season where he went from 17 to 31 goals and was his 6th full seasonseasons for both clubs, if you want to count the year going from 9 to 17 goals, it was his 5th full season. Pogba has only just played his 4th full season at any club, Ronaldo at the same point had just had a season scoring only 9 goals, he was good but that wasn't mindblowing by any means and nothing like the player he is today. Age is significantly less important than the number of games. It happens consistently where players go from showing all the potential with too many average/anonymous games to being consistently brilliant and stepping up their game.

Again with messi it was his 5th full season he jumped from 10/14 goals in the previous two years to 23 goals in the league, then 34 goals the year after, 50 goals came in his 8th full season.

Pogba is effectively behind where you'd expect precisely because of his early time at Utd and not being played in 15-30 games(starting and sub across all competitions) for a couple of years before he went to Juve and that itself is the reason he moved, because players like messi/Ronaldo got those chances to start playing at that age and Pogba didn't. He's not going to score 30 goals a season because he's not a wide attacker or a striker.

Another example is Bale, counting 06/07 as his first significant season(2 appearances before that) it was 12/13 when he went from 9 goals to 21 after 6 'full' seasons, 4 of them had 23+ games, the first season he moved to Spurs was only 12 games in all competitions, if you excluded that or bundled that into the second Spurs season you get his break out season being after 5 seasons of significant numbers of games per season.

This isn't new or different, this is something you see repeatedly in top players, a monumental jump in level in the 5th or 6th season. It's also something I pointed out when comparing Martial, he was also effectively a late starter and the level he performed at last year in what you could consider to be only his 2nd or 3rd full season highlights just how ridiculously good the kid is.
 
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Robbo said:
Football transfers are generally quite crazy and are affected by all sorts of factors. The bottom line for me is, I'd rather have Pogba than have the £89m sat in the bank not doing much, or waiting for the Glazers to use it for something else.

I think the marketing side of it will likely be greater than you've suggested there, but I'm not saying it'll necessarily be huge either.

As it stands, I have no issues at all, but I do agree it's a lot of money. To put it in perspective (flawed though this comparison may be): would I rather have Pogba, or Sterling + Andy Carroll - adjusted for market inflation... easy decision.

Again though, if he gets injured or struggles, it'll suddenly be a disaster, but that's a risk with any big signing.
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The comparison isn't just flawed but nonsense because you don't know how Pogba will turn out. I'd rather have 100 Viera's than Porba or Sterling & Carroll but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

And does it have to be Pogba or money sat in the bank? I'm sure comparable players could have been available for even half Pogba's fee. It's clear that this is a Mourinho decision rather than a club decision because we all know he doesn't give a **** about the clubs he manages beyond the short time he's there.

drunkenmaster said:
Sure, because they paid a huge fee for Di Maria and since then have had to match that fee for every player they've bought? Or wait, no they didn't and the big fee set no precedent at all.
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You're saying this as Utd are being forced to pay an astronimical fee for Pogba. You couldn't make it up.
 
BaZ87 said:
The comparison isn't just flawed but nonsense because you don't know how Pogba will turn out. I'd rather have 100 Viera's than Porba or Sterling & Carroll but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

And does it have to be Pogba or money sat in the bank? I'm sure comparable players could have been available for even half Pogba's fee. It's clear that this is a Mourinho decision rather than a club decision because we all know he doesn't give a **** about the clubs he manages beyond the short time he's there.
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And you don't know how he'll turn out either, so it's all speculation in that regard. I could list lots of players who are the subject of £30-50m bids I wouldn't even care about getting, there's very limited value now when it comes to established players.

We'd have probably struggled to get him without Mourinho, so I've no complaints there really. Unless he's a monumental failure, the fee won't hurt us (even then, it's not the end of the world).
 
Robbo said:
And you don't know how he'll turn out either, so it's all speculation in that regard.
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I know, that was my point. You can't compare transfers to how other transfers worked out, which is why I said Di Maria and Sanchez were on the same level when signed.

Anyway, I'm going to bed before DM replies to my post. It's too late, I could only manage the first line of his last post.
 
For me the worst thing is that we had him and he effectively left for free. That's pretty annoying, but the past is the past.
 
This will be just much more sweeter now when Man Utd/Jose implode this season or next.
Absolutely ridiculous to spend that much money on a player who isn't anywhere near the best in the world!
 
As a Man Utd fan I'm happy we have signed him as it will improve the squad no doubt. At the same time I would have rather got Kante for £30m and spent £60m elsewhere.
 
Robbo said:
For me the worst thing is that we had him and he effectively left for free. That's pretty annoying, but the past is the past.
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to be fair it sounds like his agent is still a bit of a **** (am also a little concerned he had to convince Pogba to rejoin, with the help of $$$ no doubt) both in this transfer and reports of what he did at BD regarding Miki

The club could be "in bed" with this viper for a long while

A2Z said:
As a Man Utd fan I'm happy we have signed him as it will improve the squad no doubt. At the same time I would have rather got Kante for £30m and spent £60m elsewhere.
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You realise of course they arent the same type of midfielder at all, right?

Kante is a very good DM, maybe not world class yet but certainly very good (and well worth the money Chelsea spent), Pogba plays his best games much more further forward, even as far as No 10 which will always cost a lot more money because attackers generally do. Even this first season Pogba is likely to play as a box to box player, but hopefully JM has the courage to boot out rooney from No 10 and play Pogba there instead.
 
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£89m + £4.2 bonus if he renews his contract or gets sold on again for over €50m.

The fee doesn't seem quite so crazy when you realise that price is at least 10% inflated because of Brexit, Sterling sold for £50m and Everton reportedly just turned down £70m for Lukaku. Also bear in mind that this time last year everyone was talking about how players would be more expensive this year because of the new TV money. If we'd bought Pogba last year i wouldn't be surprised if the fee had been something like £60m.
 
I guess it's what they have to pay, they aren't the draw they once were. So you pay OTT money to get players to join. Merc, player and agent. That money doesn't buy you much settling in time like Ronaldo got at United.
 
Robbo said:
Football transfers are generally quite crazy and are affected by all sorts of factors. The bottom line for me is, I'd rather have Pogba than have the £89m sat in the bank not doing much, or waiting for the Glazers to use it for something else.
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Or you could have had Pogba & £89m sat in the bank had he not been let go. :D
 
Artery said:
Or you could have had Pogba & £89m sat in the bank had he not been let go. :D
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and just like Shaw last season miss the whole campaign through injury in one of those years (for instance), or just not be the same player he is today.

If Utd hadnt let him go, whats the probability we would still have him and Bayern, Barca or RM not sniffing around this summer. At least he is secure for 2-3 seasons at the very least (I think its a 5 year contract), and given that none of those will seriously think about a £100m+ transfer to prize him away for that long (if at all).
 
I don't find the fee that surprising at all, when you compare it to other things being banded about. Higuain has gone for ~£75m at 28, Lukaku is rumoured to be going for somewhere near that range etc.

This whole window has been wild, Watford apparently rejecting crazy offers for Deeney etc.
 
Keeping Rooney around and paying him ridiculous money each week is a far bigger mistake than letting Pogba go. We have made some shocking decisions in the last 6-7 years.
 
Bucket said:
I don't find the fee that surprising at all, when you compare it to other things being banded about. Higuain has gone for ~£75m at 28, Lukaku is rumoured to be going for somewhere near that range etc.

This whole window has been wild, Watford apparently rejecting crazy offers for Deeney etc.
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Higuain and possibly Lukaku are slightly inflated because they have/ may go to direct competitors / in the same league which is always going to make them more expensive.

WHats Lukaku actually worth, £30m? on what he can actually do right now, 10m? on his potential and a further 10m-15m? on being a direct competitor (even if Everton dont really directly compete with Chelsea, ie not the same annual targets for success etc) and the rest on the general insane prices ,and the fact that the window is running out for such a big deal, and there arent that many really decent strikers around currently
 
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Not strengthening the side when we were on top. Leaving the team in a bit of a state when he left. Appointing Moyes as his successor. There have been plenty of bad ones in hindsight but those are the biggest ones.

Fergie made up for a lot of shortcomings in the squad but once he left you really saw how important he was for our success.
 
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