What are people's thoughts on the burkini ban in France?

muon · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:39

Arazi said:
I do not care what the woman looks like who is wearing it or what she is wearing, all that concerns me is that she wears it because of a religious belief designed to oppress women.

If you agree with that belief, who's the bad one here?

You can be concerned if you want.

You're telling her how to be free by bringing in rules telling her she can't wear what she wants to.

richthomuk · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:39

Arazi said:
I do not care what the woman looks like who is wearing it or what she is wearing, all that concerns me is that she wears it because of a religious belief designed to oppress women.

If you agree with that belief, who's the bad one here?

Pretty sure arresting people if they do not remove clothes on a beach is oppressing women... Im beginning to think you just feel it will affect your ability to see cleavage on your next beach holiday

Tefal · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:39

muon said:
Care to prove that? Does it infringe on your rights?

If you can, anyone can ban religion via the legal process.

Genital mutilation of babies for religious reasons is something I'd say infringes the babies rights.

Yet its 100% legal.

So hows that work for your argument?

muon · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:41

Tefal said:
Genital mutilation of babies for religious reasons is something I'd say infringes the babies rights.

Yet its 100% legal.

So hows that work for your argument?

That's your problem. Your individual opinion isn't what matters. It's the legal opinion arrived at by thinking about it more than 5 minutes.

Tefal · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:43

muon said:
That's your problem. Your individual opinion isn't what matters. It's the legal opinion arrived at by thinking about it more than 5 minutes.

Really?

So its perfectly ok to cut bits off children in your opinion?

Do we not have a right to not be mutilated?

Which bits are ok to remove do you feel then?

muon · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:44

Tefal said:
Really?

So its perfectly ok to cut bits of children in your opinion?

Do we not have a right to not be mutilated?

I haven't looked into the matter.

I have an opinion based on 10 seconds of thought, but that is an individual one.

The other thing to consider is what happens when different rights conflict against each other. Is there an order in which rights apply? Again I don't know the answer.

Arazi · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:46

muon said:
You can be concerned if you want.

You're telling her how to be free by bringing in rules telling her she can't wear what she wants to.

Well answered :rolleyes:

muon · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:47

Arazi said:
Well answered

I didn't say you are bad to be concerned that they might be forced to wear a burkini (I don't believe that to be the case, oppressed women wouldn't be at the beach in skin tight clothes).

But you are bad for wanting to infringe on the rights of others to do a simple thing of wearing less revealing clothes at the beach be that for their religious beliefs.

Randomface74 · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:48

I really don't care.

But... this thread shouldn't be here because OCUK rules prohibit honest discussion.

muon · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:51

billysielu said:
I really don't care.

But... this thread shouldn't be here because OCUK rules prohibit honest discussion.

The law prevents unrestricted honest discussion.

Racism, extremism and bigotry etc. isn't allowed no matter how "honest" the person is being.

edit:

Actually I don't really know what the exact legal boundaries are, but going by what happens when such things are posted on Twitter etc. there does appear to be a boundary.

Tefal · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:51

muon said:
I haven't looked into the matter.

I have an opinion based on 10 seconds of thought, but that is an individual one.

The other thing to consider is what happens when different rights conflict against each other. Is there an order in which rights apply? Again I don't know the answer.

Wait you've just made the largely sarcastic argument that genital mutiliation is ok and justified and not a violation of rights if you think about it for 5 minutes.

And now its youve thought about it for 10 seconds
.

Order of rights?

I'd say the rights to protection from physical harm/abuse comes before the parents right to mutilate thier child to appease thier god.

richthomuk · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:52

Pretty sure ive not seen any bigotry here

Arazi · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:52

richthomuk said:
Pretty sure arresting people if they do not remove clothes on a beach is oppressing women... Im beginning to think you just feel it will affect your ability to see cleavage on your next beach holiday

Where have i said arrest people? You are making **** up now.

If you are talking about the police in France then yes on that occasion it was illegal, so if you purposely go to the beach wearing certain clothing that is banned then you are risking arrest are you not?

Because at the time, it was illegal.

Tefal · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:53

muon said:
I didn't say you are bad to be concerned that they might be forced to wear a burkini (I don't believe that to be the case, oppressed women wouldn't be at the beach in skin tight clothes).

But you are bad for wanting to infringe on the rights of others to do a simple thing of wearing less revealing clothes at the beach be that for their religious beliefs.

And yet that is the exact justification that makes many aspects of BDSM illegal.

And under the extreme pornography laws was trumpeted as a great thing.

muon · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:53

Tefal said:
Wait you've just made the largely sarcastic argument that genital mutiliation is ok and justified and not a violation of rights if you think about it for 5 minutes.

You misinterprested my post. I'm suggesting you've done 5 minutes of research on it. Whilst lawmakers have done far more research on it than you.

And now its youve thought about it for 10 seconds
.

See above.

Order of rights?

I'd say the rights to protection from physical harm/abuse comes before the parents right to mutilate thier child to appease thier god.

I'd say it is a lot more complex than a one sentence answer.

Again, don't take my posts to suggest i believe one way or the other.

edit:

In fact I may as well say it. My 10 second opinion is that it doesn't seem right for it to be allowed.

fezster · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:54

Arazi said:
all that concerns me is that she wears it because of a religious belief designed to oppress women.

Putting aside the issue of what this thread is about, Arazi - you're just a bit No personal attacks? You're advocating women's rights by dictating what they can and can't wear. That is a completely nonsensical argument.

You should just quit while you're behind on this one, before you make yourself look even more silly.

Arazi · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:54

muon said:
That's your problem. Your individual opinion isn't what matters. It's the legal opinion arrived at by thinking about it more than 5 minutes.

Really, so because it is legal Tefals or anyone else's opinion doesn't matter? Especially on a subject like that, i rarely use it but just lol.

Arazi · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:55

muon said:
I haven't looked into the matter.

I have an opinion based on 10 seconds of thought, but that is an individual one.

The other thing to consider is what happens when different rights conflict against each other. Is there an order in which rights apply? Again I don't know the answer.

Answer = ban religion.

muon · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:57

Arazi said:
Really, so because it is legal Tefals or anyone else's opinion doesn't matter? Especially on a subject like that, i rarely use it but just lol.

He made the following statement.

Genital mutilation of babies for religious reasons is something I'd say infringes the babies rights.

Yet its 100% legal.

So hows that work for your argument?

Tefal might have done a significant amount of research on the matter and arrived at the conclusion that it is infringing on rights. But I don't think that is the case.

To me it doesn't seem right, but I'll defer for now to more informed people. It seems like it is a very complex matter.

Forcing people to remove a burkini when it doesn't infringe on anyone's rights or present any security threat? Easier thing to make a comment on.

richthomuk · 29 Aug 2016 at 15:59

Arazi said:
As thread title, this hasn't been discussed in here i don't think. Will it happen in this country?

I don't think any religious clothing like this should be allowed, especially as it promotes oppression.

If this thread is closed i would like to know why, as it is a valid discussion\topic and could have a big impact on who leads France after their elections next year.

http://www.france24.com/en/20160828...ies-presidential-election-sarkozy-juppe-valls

"Former president Nicolas Sarkozy, who announced this week he is seeking the conservative nomination, has called for a law banning burkinis “on the entire territory of the Republic” – and others in his camp have followed suit."

Arazi said:
Where have i said arrest people? You are making **** up now.

Seems like you are happy for it to be banned to me. Explain how im making **** up.