What car for up to £25k (S5/M3/RS4)

Mulder

Mulder

Mulder

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I've owned a 330Ci M Sport for a few years now which I've loved to bits but it's starting to show its age (it's a 2004) and I feel like a change.

Have been researching for a few months now and read a lot of the posts on here and elsewhere, but I'm at the point where I'm really struggling to make a final decision and keep changing my mind.

I've test driven both an RS4 (2007) and an S5 (2011) and planning on taking an E92 M3 out this weekend. Looked at an RS5 but they are starting to get out of my budget and also not sure it's worth the extra cost over an S5. Main criteria are interior and ride/power, and probably in that order. Not that bothered about fuel economy as you can probably guess but keen to not pick something that will cripple me with servicing costs over and above other cars in a similar class (that's the key thing putting me off an older RS4). Have ruled out a C63 for various reasons.

So, what would you choose?
 
Given you main priorities a ten year old rs4 and an e92 are going to be pretty poor when it comes to interior compared to even modest offerings from much newer generation cars.
When you say ride do you mean handling? Or comfort? Because again, none of those mentioned are particularly comfortable!
The s5 really doesn't have the same level of performance and handling as the rs or the m. What it does have though is the nicest interior.
 
I think you're testing the right marques and models. I'm sensing premium coupes and saloons is where you're focused so try the Jaguar (XKR, XFR) and Lexus (IS-F) equivalents if they're not on the list.

I notice that your priorities are in order interior, ride, power. By ride do you mean sharp handling or comfort and smoothness? If the latter, and running costs don't bother you, then something like a Mercedes CL500 is going to be hard to beat on those characteristics. Smooth, refined, close to 400bhp and toys galore. Your budget will get a low mileage 2010 model that cost someone close to £80K+ new. Depreciation will be horrendous but I can think of few better ways to waft about at high speed with the ventilated seats massaging my aches and pains away.

If sharp handling and non-astronomical running costs are more of a concern then it's not for you. I also note the C63 is out which would be the obvious sport comparison so perhaps as a brand not what you want.

Me, I'd go for a 997 vintage Porsche I think if the back seats weren't so important.
 
E92 M3 all day long, take of the stock exhaust and remove 2 or 4 of the baffles and they sound awesome on stock exhaust, handle quite nicely though do feel a little heavy. But they are overall a real nice car with a great high revving V8 that sounds fantastic with exhaust mod to stock axle back.

The Audi's do not interest me, understeer, not as special as the M car and depreciating a lot more than the BMW. Only advantage I'd say the Audi offer is interior quality and AWD gives better all weather handling.

M3 for me would be easy choice and they are now holding value very well, will no doubt begin appreciating as the S65 is a great engine, its only weakness is its a bit gutless down low. Try to get DCT version if you can, its quite a bit quicker than the manual. :)
 
Funny you mention the M3. It's a great car. However, I would sooner bag the C63 and RS4 (I'm hoping this will be my next car) before the M3.
 
The S5 is the outlier here. It's basically an A5 3.0TFSI S-Line with a posher name designed to make people think its more like an M3 when in reality it's a 335i M Sport alternative. This means either:

a) Get rid of it on the list because it simply doesn't compare to an RS4 or an E92 M3
b) Include an F30 335i on the list - it's a similar sort of car to the S5, but is much newer and much more modern inside.
 
Yes. But the problem with that though is S5 sounds more impressive than 335i M-sport.

But agree entirely. The S5 doesn't really belong in that company. And if these are compromise you're willing to make, then the 335i would be a much better alternative.

That being said, I assume you're looking at the coupe shape, so the 435i would be the one to go for. Whether they are in budget though, I don't know.
 
By ride I'm really talking about handling/steering. Aware that the Audi's will understeer, although I didn't really notice any on the test drive, guess I wasn't ragging it enough. So that's another negative on the RS4 particularly given the extra power, but for me Audi are unbeatable on interiors so it's a question of priorities, and i think I'd be willing to take a bit of understeer for a nicer interior.

I test drove the older S5, the V8 4.2L. Guess I should really try the new V6, pretty sure they introduced launch control and a couple of other differences on the newer engine. The newer S5s are also available in the face lift which is a little nicer to look at. Worse hit on deprecation though on the newer ones as you say Gibbo.

I know E46 M3s are holding their value really well (and nicer examples are appreciating) but didn't think that would apply to newer E92s yet. Assuming I keep it for say 2 years presume the M3 would be worth more than an S5? I know nicer RS4s are in the same category as E46s, holding their value really well or in certain cases going up now.

Fox - I hear what you're saying, but I'd ruled out the 335 as it's essentially the newer version of what I've got now. The M3 has a lot of differences to the 3 series, and the current equivalent would be the RS5 I guess, but it doesn't seem worth the extra money over and above the S5.
 
There's just not a lot going for Audis, if you want a drivers car. They do under steer pretty bad (although all cars under steer in a static test), and the ride is pretty awful. My brother has an RS5 and I just don't really like it anywhere near the edge, too many electronics doing some really weird stuff (to me).

The S4 with the supercharged V6 is great value for money. With a little bit of work it's as quick as an RS4.
 
Mulder said:
By ride I'm really talking about handling/steering. Aware that the Audi's will understeer, although I didn't really notice any on the test drive, guess I wasn't ragging it enough. So that's another negative on the RS4 particularly given the extra power, but for me Audi are unbeatable on interiors so it's a question of priorities, and i think I'd be willing to take a bit of understeer for a nicer interior.

I test drove the older S5, the V8 4.2L. Guess I should really try the new V6, pretty sure they introduced launch control and a couple of other differences on the newer engine. The newer S5s are also available in the face lift which is a little nicer to look at. Worse hit on deprecation though on the newer ones as you say Gibbo.

I know E46 M3s are holding their value really well (and nicer examples are appreciating) but didn't think that would apply to newer E92s yet. Assuming I keep it for say 2 years presume the M3 would be worth more than an S5? I know nicer RS4s are in the same category as E46s, holding their value really well or in certain cases going up now.

Fox - I hear what you're saying, but I'd ruled out the 335 as it's essentially the newer version of what I've got now. The M3 has a lot of differences to the 3 series, and the current equivalent would be the RS5 I guess, but it doesn't seem worth the extra money over and above the S5.
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E9x M3 values are already up, a year ago you could easily pick a rough one up for around 15k, now similar poorer quality and high mileage examples are in the 17-20k region. Nicer version are now 20k plus, whereas a year or two ago 17-18k got you a nice one.

At 25k you should be able to get a 2010 face lift with DCT, some nice options with around 50k miles. :)


ov_sjo said:
There's just not a lot going for Audis, if you want a drivers car. They do under steer pretty bad (although all cars under steer in a static test), and the ride is pretty awful. My brother has an RS5 and I just don't really like it anywhere near the edge, too many electronics doing some really weird stuff (to me).

The S4 with the supercharged V6 is great value for money. With a little bit of work it's as quick as an RS4.
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I drove a facelift RS5 with 450BHP, friends car so had chance to take it on my favourite roads. I have to say I absolutely hated it, the ride seemed crashy/harsh, the understeer levels were beyond a joke they were that bad. Straight line acceleration, interior and noise it made were pretty good, but nothing amazing. Overall I felt it a pretty poor car it was one of the worse Audi's I've driven when it came to anything other than straight lines.

V8 RS4 is a much better car even though its definetely slower than the RS5 on the straight bits, but the RS5 is one of those cars I shall always remember as a huge disappointment, when you get handed the keys to a 450BHP menacing looking coupe expecting great things and then you drive it and walk away thinking well that really was a total piece of smelly stuff to actually drive. If your someone who enjoys driving the RS5 was nothing but annoying, disappointing and a big let down.
 
Blackhawk47 said:
I know its not on the list but for £25k you can get a good spec'd TTRS which would smoke an S5/M3/RS4.
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It would not smoke them at all, yes a TTRS shoots above its weight but at stock 340-360PS its going to be similar to those cars in acceleration. On a track an M3 would be as quick or faster. Remap the RS then agreed it will be smoking them, but lets not be comparing tuned cars to stock cars, because any car can be tuned.

TT RS are due a big hit in depreciation as well now with new one due any time still using the 5cyl engine.

BMW M3 is a pretty safe buy, it has an epic V8, muscular looks, great noise and pretty good handling.
 
An S5 will understeer a lot more than an RS4 which actually hides the understeer well by comparison to most Audi's, well until you take it on track then it falls apart. As a fast road car the RS4 is a fantastic all weather super saloon. It sounds superb, it has great traction and unlike virtually all Audi's it is brilliantly damped so when you add that damping to great traction you have a superb road car and again compared to most Audi's its steering is OK, never Porsche special, but OK and the M3 has never been renown for great steering. In terms of challenge and fun then the M3 all day long, but if you want the most rounded car the RS4 is the one, in Avant form. Never feels that quick, actually isn't that quick and can be expensive to run and maintain.

Any A5 is a heap, forget that one.
 
[TW]Fox;29965401 said:
The F30 is a completely different car to an E46 330Ci. About all it has in common is the BMW badge!
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You'll probably be able to give me a bunch of differences, but it feels like it's essentially the two generations newer version of my car. It might just be in my head, but I'm sure I'd get bored of it quicker than an M3 or an S/RS5.

ov_sjo said:
The S4 with the supercharged V6 is great value for money. With a little bit of work it's as quick as an RS4.
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I've heard that about the 3L supercharged engines too. I never really understood why the 3L supercharged engines vary so much in terms of BHP and torque. I read about a tuning stage for the stock S5 that takes it to faster than the RS, and apparently it was £2-3k which doesn't sound right but would be a result if it was!

Gibbo said:
E9x M3 values are already up, a year ago you could easily pick a rough one up for around 15k, now similar poorer quality and high mileage examples are in the 17-20k region. Nicer version are now 20k plus, whereas a year or two ago 17-18k got you a nice one.

At 25k you should be able to get a 2010 face lift with DCT, some nice options with around 50k miles. :)
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Wow, didn't realise about them appreciating that much. I had assumed I'd be hit for depreciation on both with the S5 just hurting a bit more.

Blackhawk47 said:
I know its not on the list but for £25k you can get a good spec'd TTRS which would smoke an S5/M3/RS4.
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Never been a fan of the TT, always just struck me as a suped up hairdressers car. Sorry to any owners on here. :p
 
Housey said:
An S5 will understeer a lot more than an RS4 which actually hides the understeer well by comparison to most Audi's, well until you take it on track then it falls apart. As a fast road car the RS4 is a fantastic all weather super saloon. It sounds superb, it has great traction and unlike virtually all Audi's it is brilliantly damped so when you add that damping to great traction you have a superb road car and again compared to most Audi's its steering is OK, never Porsche special, but OK and the M3 has never been renown for great steering. In terms of challenge and fun then the M3 all day long, but if you want the most rounded car the RS4 is the one, in Avant form. Never feels that quick, actually isn't that quick and can be expensive to run and maintain.
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Surpirsed to hear the S5 would understeer a lot more than the RS, I would have thought the extra power meant you felt the understeer more. I remember when Clarkson took the RS4 around the track and complained a lot about the understeer, although I know i) he complains a lot and ii) you actually owned one (read your review on it, nice one for that).

I've been looking at the saloon, why does going for the Avant matter?

For your last sentence which car are you talking about sorry?
 
Mulder said:
I've heard that about the 3L supercharged engines too. I never really understood why the 3L supercharged engines vary so much in terms of BHP and torque. I read about a tuning stage for the stock S5 that takes it to faster than the RS, and apparently it was £2-3k which doesn't sound right but would be a result if it was!
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A simple remap on the 3.0TFSI in the S4/S5 will make it quicker than an RS4 in a straight line, but that's just it, in a straight line.

Chris Harris did a video I seem to recall.

EDIT:


DAIR said:
Started off with a V8. Now they're V6 powered.
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I know :confused:

That's why I asked which he was talking about :confused:
 
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