Almost a vegetarian!
- Thread starter Uther
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The only one you really can't get from plants alone is B12. Absolutely no plant sources usable by humans at all.
It's a particularly nasty issue for people who have changed to a fully vegetarian diet because it will affect them slowly and progressively. We need very little B12 and recycle it quite efficiently, so if a person who currently has enough from having eaten animal products all their life stops doing so they will gradually suffer from increasing B12 deficiency. Acclimatisation by slow change can lead them to not noticing the symptoms until permament damage has been done. B12 deficiency will kill you eventually.
People who genuinely ate only plants in the past (and maybe in some parts of the world in the present) got it from contamination of food and/or water because faeces from many animals (including humans) contains B12. It's a waste product of some of the bacteria that live in animal's guts. Unfortunately for humans, the bit in our guts where B12 is produced comes after the bit where it can be extracted and it's a one-way route.
So you can eat a little bit of poop or eat a supplement made in a factory/lab from vats of the type of bacteria that makes it and then purified. I'd go for the second option myself. Many vegetarian products have B12 added by the manufacturers anyway.
There are other nutrients that it's difficult to get from plants alone, but given that here and now we have so much easy access to so many edible plants it's possible to get what you need of everything apart from B12 if you do some research. It boils down to a suitable variety of plants because different plants can have very different amounts of various nutrients, but you can often simplify it to different types of plants and still be close enough for good health. Some leafy green veg, some legumes, some grains...that sort of thing. Which you'd probably want to be doing anyway for the sake of variety in eating. Few people want to eat the same things in every meal.
I used to know a vegan who was a decent athlete. He said that once you learn the nutritional content of various plants and get used to the mix 'n' matching required it's no bother at all. Just habit.
vegans are insufferable. Us veggies aren't too bad
The insufferable vegans are insufferable. The rest of them are ordinary and thus far less noticeable.
It comes down to whether their veganism is personal or political. If it's personal, you probably won't even notice it. It's their choice for themself - personal. If it's political, they will push it at other people and probably shove it in your face all the time and rant at you about it, i.e. push it relatively hard.
That vegan I mentioned in my last post - I worked with them for months before I knew they were a vegan. They always bought their own food in to work, but that's not unusual. They only mentioned veganism (and I mean mentioned, not preached) when it was brought up in a conversation. Personal, not political.
Actually, no.
You're going from one extreme to the other. Even after the invention of farming (which, remember is an artificial thing that didn't exist for almost all of the existence of humanity) lack of meat was usually a sign of severe poverty and poor health due to inadequate diet. People who ate meat rarely didn't do so because it was just a treat. They did so because they were too poor to buy meat, and they suffered badly from that poverty.
But for most of the existence of humanity people lived as hunter-gatherers and so even the above didn't apply. People ate meat quite often as it was an essential part of survival. Or they died, of course. Dying relatively young was common in the past.
Humans are biologically adapted to being versatile omnivores because that's what they've been since the beginning and that's what pre-human hominids were.
You can argue that it would be morally better for humans to be vegans now that improvements in technology have made it viable. You can argue that it's a more efficienct use of resources. You can argue that it can be healthier if it's done properly, though it's far from clear how much of any health benefit is due to not eating meat and how much is due to the requirement to be a lot more careful about what you eat. You can't really argue that humans were mainly vegetarian by choice until recently and that it was beneficial. The poorest peasants subsisting until some disease killed them are not the gold standard for healthy living.
Good post.
The converse is also true. lots of people that are fans of fad diets like (cringe) 'Paleo' seems to think early humans were largely carnivores, or always had a constant supply of meat -completely ignoring the gathering aspect of "hunter-gatherer". Not every hunt would be successful, and at different items of the year it may have been easier or harder to hunt successfully due to animal migrations and hibernation etc.
The other aspect ignored is that early humans were scavengers, a large source of protein would come form carcasses left behind by the sabre toothed tigers and cave bears etc. Using tools to break open bones to get to the marrow or the brain deep within a skull etc.
It is also evident that a lot of protein came form eating bugs, grubs and insects. Earth worms, maggots, snails, etc. would have been gathered to boost protein,e specially after unsuccessful hinting.
But for some reason 'Paleo' advocates don't seem to want to eat earth worms and road kill
Nice, you've just decreased your probability of premature death!
I dunno, organic corn fed vegan sounds tasty
That's nonsense. Ask any grazing animal. What people need is being able to separate nonsense from reality, even if there's a study into that nonsense.
bahhhaahhhaaaa.
didn't know we had say 4 stomachs. not all mammals are made equally.
This is why we cook our food not to need 4 stomachs. And the question was about the nutrients and the diversity of foods where you get them from. What I meant to say that animals who don't eat meat, not just grazing ones, are quite healthy.
P.S. that's a poor thought out excuse you're trying to make. You need to ask yourself these questions - are vegetarian people bound to get sick and die early? The answer is obvious.
I'm not vegetarian btw, I used to be, but now I eat fish, i'd probably eat some meat too, if I could kill some animal in the woods.
No, you compared us to grazing animals
Cook as much grass as you won't, it won't help you.
My reply had nothing to do with can vegetarians be healthy, of course they can it just requires more planning. It had to do with your comment, which was silly.
Cook as much grass as you won't, it won't help you.
My reply had nothing to do with can vegetarians be healthy, of course they can it just requires more planning. It had to do with your comment, which was silly.
LOL
you can't avoid playing some part in animal suffering much less consuming the products of animals
it isn't hypocritical to be concerned about animal welfare while also benefiting form the suffering of animals - I mean every time a tree is cut down thousands of insects die yet I'd wager most vegans still have wooden furniture of some description in their houses.
4 stomachs prevents bacteria?
I've never heard about many stomachs to be honest, but it should mean that a grazing animal has longer food tract so they can extract more nutrients, like nitrogen (for some reason it's good for them) out of grass.
I do wonder about this myself, we (the population in general) don't tend to eat sufficient fruit and veg and a byproduct of becoming vegan is likely eating far more fruit and veg than you'd previously have eaten ergo you end up with a healthier diet.
I think cutting down on meat could be a good thing, especially red meat... but really a diet with a bit of fish, poultry and plenty of veggie meals ought to be just as healthy (if not more so) as a full on vegan diet.
Don't be ridiculous. Insects don't even have a proper brain to realise they are being hurt. Also when the tree is cut down nobody goes after every insect and tortures them, separating from the family, forcing to live in shocking unhygienic conditions.
While every animal being used and abuse is the same as a pet animal, has character, feelings, can be in huge amounts of pain.
Everyone who would be very eager to prevent abuse of a dog or a cat, but eats meat is utterly deplorable hypocrite.
That's not why we cook food though is it?
What are you talking about?
Someone who eats meat and someone who cuts a cat in half to see which half runs faster are exactly the same. One would say it tastes good, other that they like the show. The latter ones are a minority therefore their view is not considered acceptable.
There's a bit of a tale I want to share, for some people to think about.
Pigs, who are considered to be so dirty, and often seen living in mud and faeces on a farm. One of such pigs was getting rescued or helped by animal activists. She was a sick pig, suffering from abuse and didn't have feeling in her back legs or something. For starters she was given fresh hay. She spent a day taking that hay in her mouth and cleaning the den as high as she could reach.
Now go to a supermarket and buy that animal treat for your doggy. You love animal don't you, especially dogs. And your pet dog is like your family member. I loled hard. That makes you same as Hitler in my eyes. He never killed anyone too. It's all his lieutenants.
Pigs, who are considered to be so dirty, and often seen living in mud and faeces on a farm. One of such pigs was getting rescued or helped by animal activists. She was a sick pig, suffering from abuse and didn't have feeling in her back legs or something. For starters she was given fresh hay. She spent a day taking that hay in her mouth and cleaning the den as high as she could reach.
Now go to a supermarket and buy that animal treat for your doggy. You love animal don't you, especially dogs. And your pet dog is like your family member. I loled hard. That makes you same as Hitler in my eyes. He never killed anyone too. It's all his lieutenants.
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