Elderly Parent had a fall - Ambulance took 7 hrs

How on earth is a fall causing an open woud head injury and a suspected broken hip (a person with 2 hip replacements) on a 71 year old patient not potentially life threatning ?

You can lose a ridiculous amount of blood from a hip fracture.
 
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How on earth is a fall causing an open woud head injury and a suspected broken hip (a person with 2 hip replacements) on a 71 year old patient not potentially life threatning ?

You can lose a ridiculous amount of blood from a hip fracture.

When the call taker triages the call, if the head wound is likely deemed non-serious, i.e. no loss of consciousness, patient is alert and able to speak etc then it's likely not to be graded as a Red1 or Red 2 incident.

This is how it should be considering the available ambulances and demand. Chances are, that there were other people much more acutely ill who need the ambulance more than the OP did.

The OP also had the option of taking a taxi to hospital. Whilst I'm sure that many people would object to this suggestion, the reality is that 7 hours is not unusual.
 
As disgusting as it is you had loads of options to get him there all be it none ideal.
Yeah the poor guy was in pain but not life threatening. The operator made the right judgement call but then he seemed to get lost in the system.
Vote tory though at your next general election. Those greedy NHS people don't need better work systems or more money.
 
The services are horrendously overstretched currently. I've seen terrible wait times for people I sent in. The worst was 12 hours for someone in ketoacidosis from a nursing home, and had requested a <1 hour response time. Thankfully they were OK, but the service is on its knees currently.
 
As much as people like to think the stress is caused by migrant health tourism, it's really down to an aging population and over-use of A&E by people with things that don't need urgent attention.

I'm not implying the OPs dad situation wasn't in need of urgent attention, but I'm guessing the operator made a judgement call based on information that your mother gave to them.
 
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As much as people like to think the stress is caused by migrant health tourism, it's really down to an aging population and over-use of A&E by people with things that don't need urgent attention.

I'm not implying the OPs dad situation wasn't in need of urgent attention, but I'm guessing the operator made a judgement call based on information that your mother gave to them.

Well said and agreed.

It's funny what the press would make of an issue like this, but ultimately it does come down to the NHS needing more money due to our aging population.
 
My flatmate is a paramedic/ambulance crew. Some of the stories he tells me are ridiculous.

People calling 999 for diarrhoea and other things that are GP referrals at best. Such a waste of their time but they must act and there are no negative consequences for the time-wasting caller.
 
A lot of it is down to time wasters. But also the never ending cuts to all the services over the years. They think people can do more and more with less and less. So obviously things either just don't get done, or it takes 10x as long.

Pay freezes for years on end don't help keep staff either. But they know that, it's how they are killing off the services without redundancy payouts.
 
When the call taker triages the call, if the head wound is likely deemed non-serious, i.e. no loss of consciousness, patient is alert and able to speak etc then it's likely not to be graded as a Red1 or Red 2 incident.

This is how it should be considering the available ambulances and demand. Chances are, that there were other people much more acutely ill who need the ambulance more than the OP did.

The OP also had the option of taking a taxi to hospital. Whilst I'm sure that many people would object to this suggestion, the reality is that 7 hours is not unusual.

Would this not potentially cause a rise in people "playing" the system. For example in the OP's case, you could say he's slurring his words and keeps complaining about being faint. It's not something they could prove very easily.

Granted it does bring morality into question, but at the end of the day if your loved one died waiting 7 hours for an ambulance, you'd only wish you exaggerated the conditions a little bit more.
 
My flatmate is a paramedic/ambulance crew. Some of the stories he tells me are ridiculous.

People calling 999 for diarrhoea and other things that are GP referrals at best. Such a waste of their time but they must act and there are no negative consequences for the time-wasting caller.

Fine them

NHS management are idiots

They complain about lack of funding....well here's one!
 
We get the health service we deserve. Everyone wants a better health service but they'll quite happily vote out any political party who tells them the additional tax they'll need to pay to get it. So the argument fragments into spending priorities, wastage, NHS contracts, procurement costs etc etc.
 
We get the health service we deserve. Everyone wants a better health service but they'll quite happily vote out any political party who tells them the additional tax they'll need to pay to get it. So the argument fragments into spending priorities, wastage, NHS contracts, procurement costs etc etc.

The problem is the NHS is so poorly managed that any party pledging huge increases in funding, suddenly come under the spotlight when actually the NHS isn't performing any better, but is just costing the taxpayer a lot more money.

I for one do not want the NHS to become privatised, but the entire health service needs a complete strategy overhaul.
 
Fine them

NHS management are idiots

They complain about lack of funding....well here's one!

I believe they have undertaken studies before in to charging people for missing GP appointments, paying for treatment if they are foreign visitors etc and with the admin costs and the rate of money they would actually be able to collect (non-payers, court fees etc) it would cost the NHS more than they would make back.
 
I believe they have undertaken studies before in to charging people for missing GP appointments, paying for treatment if they are foreign visitors etc and with the admin costs and the rate of money they would actually be able to collect (non-payers, court fees etc) it would cost the NHS more than they would make back.

Needs better processes then. The current system can't continue. It either evolves, or it dies.
 
To add a bit of light hertedness to this tale of very poor service by the health services I sometimes leave a ham radio app running that decodes pager messages (it's quite legal to do this...).

These messages from a paramedic who called for an ambulance made me chuckle:

Motorcyclist injured by bird strike, facial lacerations.


Patient becoming agitated, ETA please?


Patient very agitated, again, ETA please?


Patient spitting feathers and talking of legal action, where the hell are they?
 
Fine them

NHS management are idiots

They complain about lack of funding....well here's one!

Well its the grunts who are treating and saving you that complain lack of funding; nurses, doctors local management.

It is the fault of the bigwigs poor spending and selfish greed that wastes the money given to them.
 
Well its the grunts who are treating and saving you that complain lack of funding; nurses, doctors local management.

It is the fault of the bigwigs poor spending and selfish greed that wastes the money given to them.

Yes, this is what really gets to me. I don't think people have an issue with paying more tax, but they are not confident on how well it would be spent.

Remember the failed IT project?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/sep/18/nhs-records-system-10bn

with blunders like this, is there any wonder people want a better NHS for no extra cost
 
For years it has felt like the decision makers are wasting money and trying to bring about bad press to push for this privatisation.

I am split between disbelief that they are this wasteful/incompetant when managing finances and disbelief that they are competent enough to run the NHS to privatisation on purpose using poor spending.
 
Can someone who works inside the NHS explain the root cause of such a slow service in recent years. Is it over population? Rise in elderly people? Lower numbers of ambulance crews?

Ageing population, understaffing... plus many more aspects.

Example: Dorris lives until she is 89 but develops mobility issues. She now needs assistance getting to her appointments (Ambulance patient transport service), she will likely have long term conditions which mean she needs more treatment and resources*, eventually her health deteriorates to the point where she ends up on a hospital ward. The hospital is keen to discharge her but she lives in a semi-detached house and her only toilet is up a flight of stairs. Before she can be discharged the hospital now has to engage with community nursing staff and the local authority. It can take months to find her a home, so Dorris spends the time sat in the bed on the ward.

Months later Dorris is due to be released but she's now got bed sores (pressure ulcers) and requires more than basic visits from district nurses. This further impacts her ability to move around and complete basic tasks such as making food. Enter the role of the Occupational Therapist and Physio to help her get back to some normality.

She may develop dementia, become a falls risk, mental health.. the list is endless. All of these long term conditions require additional resources and equipment. Let's assume she doesn't make it out of hospital for a few months, that bed is "blocked".. your nan comes in with a health issue, "sorry no beds". Rinse and repeat.

In a nutshell (apologies for this post, I'm rushing a bit) the ageing population means health issues increase, the level of support required increases and ultimately the money decreases. If they do not meet targets budgets can be cut which further turns the screw.

In Wales (not sure how it works in England) the NHS Ambulance trust is it's own separate entity to those of the local health boards. I've had a situation where I was teaching (in a major acute general hospital!) when a student had a CARDIAC arrest mid session. The ambulance service told me that she was fine as she was "in a place of safety" and quoted me 1hr to arrive. I would somewhat agree given I was at a hospital but this was a postgraduate centre with no AED (defibrillator). It may as well have been a local Tesco, with the resources I had to hand.

Running as it's own entity but serving multiple health boards means they work within their own limited budget and resources which means overall service suffers. Another example: the Welsh neonatal transfer service has ONE specialist ambulance for the whole of Wales. If your neonate/premature baby needs emergency surgery, you better hope your health board has been assigned the ambulance or you are facing a wait :(
 
How does Japan fund its healthcare?

They have a higher average life expectancy than us

:edit: I was lazy....

The health care in Japan provides healthcare services, including screening examinations, prenatal care and infectious disease control, with the patient accepting responsibility for 30% of these costs while the government pays the remaining 70%.
 
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