Hinkley Point C
- Thread starter Danthus
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).Yep, she bottled it. I don't mind the guaranteed price so much, or taking Chinese cash for Hinkley C. But having a Chinese-designed, built and run nuclear power station in Bradwell, Essex in the future worries me somewhat.
I totally agree that we should be doing it ourselves, but I am still glad to see it going ahead given that the alternative seemed to be not doing it at all.
I was amused by the front covers of two newspapers this morning. One said "power station green lit - 45,000 jobs" or something like that and a picture of a power plant. The other right next to it said "Chinese given go ahead to power UK" and had a picture of the British Isles coloured in red with a Chinese star.
Why? It would go through the same ONR GDA process and regulation as any UK built/designed plant.
The degree to which this is being subsidised is completely insane.
If I understood the figures correctly that I saw on the news last night, the total amount of subsidy to be paid (by consumers) is projected to be £37 bn. That's enough to build the power station twice over!
Effectively the government has taken a loan which will cost twice the principal, paid by energy users.
Financing it with government debt directly would result in energy costs about half the price.
If I understood the figures correctly that I saw on the news last night, the total amount of subsidy to be paid (by consumers) is projected to be £37 bn. That's enough to build the power station twice over!
Effectively the government has taken a loan which will cost twice the principal, paid by energy users.
Financing it with government debt directly would result in energy costs about half the price.
Tories gonna Tory
Although that said, the PFIs favoured by the Labour government were awful as well.
Except that it probably wouldn't have worked out cheaper to do it that way, would have required a lot more sites, would have taken longer to build and left us with the worst type of fossil fuel stations for when the weather is not suitable for wind/solar.
Nuclear plants are ideal for base load, wind and solar are utterly unsuitable for that role unless you've got some new way to store power during times of excess and feed it back in.
Nuclear plants are ideal for base load, wind and solar are utterly unsuitable for that role unless you've got some new way to store power during times of excess and feed it back in.
We could build half a dozen "Sizewell B" plants and another half dozen CANDU plants for about the same and have the additional advantage of them actually generating power in the winter, you know, when we actually really need it!
batteries for storage, the price has dropped drastically when I say drastically, many times lower than what was predicted. We can start installing renewables on a larger scale essentially over night. We are already good at wind and could become a true world leader and supplier. it will also drop in price over the next decade. Also think of the jobs and economy created. A Tesla type gigafactory in wales, expend the existing wind turbine factories which I believe are up north.
Where as hinkly C is going to be massively over budget and not on time. Also as it takes so long to build, it doesn't solve our immediate energy issues.
Nuclear was the best option just a few years ago we have left it to late now. Combined with the issues of other new build nuclear around the globe, its going to be an expensive disaster. that us tax payers will have to pay for.
Where as hinkly C is going to be massively over budget and not on time. Also as it takes so long to build, it doesn't solve our immediate energy issues.
Nuclear was the best option just a few years ago we have left it to late now. Combined with the issues of other new build nuclear around the globe, its going to be an expensive disaster. that us tax payers will have to pay for.
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Current batteries are not viable for use as storage for the national grid to provide supply to cover fluctuations in supply from wind power. You'd need many GWh of storage replaced far too often.
Organic flow batteries might be able to do the job, if they existed as more than lab prototypes.
Organic flow batteries might be able to do the job, if they existed as more than lab prototypes.
Soldato
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Please do some calculations before putting your hopes in batteries as a viable form of grid storage to support the utopia of majority renewables.
Current winter peak demand is 60GW before the Climate Madness Act requiring 80% CO2 reductions by 2050 means all heting and cooking needs to be CO2 free as well.
60GW times 4 hours a standard SFA block for grid management purposes therefore requires 240GWh and equivalent battery storage to provide that even at £100/kWh is £24Bn. In practice in the winter if you were at some notional 100% renewables you might need at least 72 hours supply not 4 so maybe £432Bn on storage. Push the cost of the actual generation assets. How long do batteries last 10 years? That might be £40Bn a year to maintain your battery capacity.
I honestly don't expect the solution to be as above but the costs are provided for illustration.
Drive to your nearest stil operating coal station, the big black mound beside it is probably enough to keep it running full load for 3-6 months.
Current winter peak demand is 60GW before the Climate Madness Act requiring 80% CO2 reductions by 2050 means all heting and cooking needs to be CO2 free as well.
60GW times 4 hours a standard SFA block for grid management purposes therefore requires 240GWh and equivalent battery storage to provide that even at £100/kWh is £24Bn. In practice in the winter if you were at some notional 100% renewables you might need at least 72 hours supply not 4 so maybe £432Bn on storage. Push the cost of the actual generation assets. How long do batteries last 10 years? That might be £40Bn a year to maintain your battery capacity.
I honestly don't expect the solution to be as above but the costs are provided for illustration.
Drive to your nearest stil operating coal station, the big black mound beside it is probably enough to keep it running full load for 3-6 months.
Caporegime
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Batteries are surely only suitable for local grid not national grid? Down to property level people will be generating from their own wind and solar, storing the power in batteries in their garden, and only drawing from the DNOs at times of low wind and sun.