stolen valor
- Thread starter cm1179
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True that - many acts of the British empire seem to have been successfully swept under the rug but in truth atrocities were carried out as bad as anything done by the Nazis but somehow we got away with it.
History is written by the victors.
Wow I must have missed the part where we moved tens of thousands of people on mass by train, including children, stripped them naked and then gassed them. I never knew our history included that.
*mumbles something about ~3 million African slaves brought to the US*
To me, the US seems to have one of the proudest populations of any country on earth. I'm just really wondering what they are so proud of
The funniest thing to me will always be the hypocrisy in their pride and patriotism.
"We are always the victim of terrorism but let's forget about us bombing about 100k innocent Japanese civilians less than 100 years ago."
"Let's get immigrants out even though we are literally all immigrants."
The stolen valor thing, yes and no. I agree it should be illegal if they use it for personal benefit. I can imagine (well I can't) that if you're a soldier who's seen his friends die in combat, get their legs blown off or go missing and you/your friends/family have fought for and earned those medals, it's a bit offensive when a random old man claims he's done all these things to earn the medals when others have suffered for them.
It's illegal to claim to be a police officer or doctor as well so why not.
I just don't even understand why anyone would want to pretend to have been to any wars. I can only imagine actually being in one will **** you up mentally, but I guess that's a case of the US massively glorifying what being in the army is actually like.
Soldato
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I am not saying you can compare atrocities but just a small google gives:
http://listverse.com/2014/02/04/10-evil-crimes-of-the-british-empire/
Jus' sayin'
*mumbles something about who actually sold them*
That applies to people subject to service law, not to civilians. The 1955 Act made it illegal for civilians however that has been repealed and I'm not aware of anything that has replaced it, unfortunately.
You're right, that makes it okay.
I think maybe he meant United States? iirc they made one in 2006?
Do you want me to start at Sumer and work through or something, it's a popular and longstanding human activity, have you heard of history? In context the ancestors of the current citizens of the us, I think we can all agree they stole someone else's country.
From my understanding there's a number of benefits from being seen in uniform in the US.
Mostly it would come in the form of simple courtesy from people around you (like letting you go to the front of a queue) to more monetary benefits like discounts in shops or maybe a taxi driver discounting your fair.
I think we see less of it in the UK because 1) we're generally more courteous to everyone and 2) what little discount you can get requires you have ID, so you don't need to be in uniform.
Mostly it would come in the form of simple courtesy from people around you (like letting you go to the front of a queue) to more monetary benefits like discounts in shops or maybe a taxi driver discounting your fair.
I think we see less of it in the UK because 1) we're generally more courteous to everyone and 2) what little discount you can get requires you have ID, so you don't need to be in uniform.
There is the tenth of the Boer population in South Africa that died in concentration camp at the beginning of the 1900s. Not necessarily intentionally, but certainly due to British actions. It's also worth looking into our actions in India.
Our history is littered with very depressing and despicable acts. At the time it was more subtle and harder to have industrialised mass murder. It was also seen as more acceptable. They were "savages", and we didn't treat the natives of many of our colonies much better than the Nazis with the Jews, disabled and minorities. No one cared about the actions of the Belgians in the Congo, as no one cared about the actions of the US against the natives, or our actions in our empire.
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I don't think there is any benefit doing that in this country. TBH people in my area tend to think more poorly of you but that's middle-class England for you. They are obviously frightened my kids and I will go on some killing spree or something being as we are contaminated with violent tendencies. In the US they look and respect their servicemen and women though.
Nice strawman there I never said it was okay did I. But you can't put forward one part of the picture and leave out the other. Well you can but it undermines your argument somewhat.
Nice strawman there I never said it was okay did I. But you can't put forward one part of the picture and leave out the other. Well you can but it undermines your argument somewhat.
There are a LOT of discounts. From plane fares/luggage to discount car hire and tickets to pretty much anything. Even places like Home Depot (US equivalent of B&Q) give discounts to service personnel. Usually you'll also need to show a form of ID though. A reasonable amount of the above is extended to UK and Canadian service personnel too, although not a huge amount of the discounts.
They also have veteran plates for vehicles, although that is fairly tightly regulated, so in theory someone with a veteran plate will have spent a reasonable amount of time in the military.
It's similar in Canada too, with plenty of free tickets to various sports games and military appreciation days, just not as many discounts.
My other half (military) regularly gets approached for the "thanks for your service"/ hand shaking routine and gets a fair amount of drinks and lunch brought for her by people in the cafes if she's in uniform too. It is odd though, but it just seems, like the US, to be a much more "military" culture if that makes any sense.
If you ever get the chance to go to buckingham palace in uniform you'll be told to go to the front of the queue. I get the impression that's pretty much it (and military discounts for places like the Tower of London, and possibly other crown owned locations).
At the same time though there are just a lot less military personnel wandering around in uniform in the UK. I guess mainly a hangon of the IRA threat.
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Soldato
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It's not just the medals - It's anything they have not earned, including the uniform, when those who have earned it usually did so through months, or even years, of effort.
Can drink fifteen pints... have celebrity friends... can run a 4-minute mile...
People brag and lie about all sorts.
Soldiers in general get respect for various reasons and it's not just in the US. People want a piece of that.
Just less hassle in general. Besides, it's what you wear for work every day.
No, that was the 2005 Stolen Valour Act.
Ours was indeed 2006.
"Under UK law the making, or attempting to make a financial gain by fraudulently wearing uniforms or medals, or by pretending to be or have been in the Armed Forces is already a criminal offence of fraud under the Fraud Act 2006, as is the pretence of being awarded an official medal. The offence carries a maximum penalty of 10 years’ imprisonment. It is also an offence under that Act (carrying up to five years’ imprisonment) for a person to possess or have under his control any article for use in the course of, or in connection with any fraud.
It is also an offence against The Uniforms Act 1894 for any person not serving in the Armed Forces to wear the uniform of any of the Armed Forces under such circumstances as to be likely to bring contempt upon that uniform"
Official MoD statement usually posted in response to various petitions of a Brit version of the Stolen Valour Act.
When I was a lad we went to army cadets in uniform because that's what the proper soldiers did but then there was that shooting at the railway station and they clamped down on it all.
Soldato
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I remember back in the Cadets we had posters up in our building that told us to take different routes and change them to and from our homes and I remember one time after the IRA or some other Irish thing we was told to wear civil coats over our uniforms one week.
Ah anyway, I find this whole stolen valor thing disturbing by the people who make a big deal out of it and chase people down. Just leave them alone, maybe a quite word if it happens in your face but nothing else.