Poll: Death Penalty - Yay or Nay

[Chris Wilson]

Quite disturbing the amount of yes votes. It's a shame the poll is anonymous.

Why is that? Given names what would you do about it? I voted yes, my posts and many others with an opinion of either side, put their views alongside their forum names. I find your comment as a moderator somewhat intriguing, if not plain irritating.

Please explain your post.

 

[Tummy]

No. Absolutely, no.

 

[eldergeek]

I agree with Dis, I've changed views (and may do again), I'm slightly against but do have a firm belief that not everyone deserves life.

Like Piers Morgan and Simon Cowell.

 

[MacRS4]

Where there is undeniable proof someone is guilty, and the crime is murder/rape/child molesting, then yes.

Then you simply have to accept that at some point that 'undeniable proof' will be wrong and you'll kill someone innocent.

Only other option is we're infallible.

 

[Andrew_McP]

I've done jury service twice. I wouldn't trust my peers to get the right result 90% of the time, let alone the 100% required.

 

[Klo]

Nope.

 

[timebomb26]

Where there is undeniable proof someone is guilty, and the crime is murder/rape/child molesting, then yes.

Even this position is absurd. Setting aside the fact that the judicial system isn't perfect and cases are more often not black and white, the various crimes you listed have so many stages. It is crazy to say everyone who commits them should be executed.

Example. Man has his daughter killed in a hit and run. Plunges in to depression and ends up hunting down the driver and killing them. Obviously a terrible crime, but is this person really beyond rehabilitation? Are we just going to give up on them that easily?

People have already made the point that innocent people will end up being executed, which as far as I'm concerned is not acceptable risk. Further to this though I just see execution as barbaric. Some kind of medieval form of justice.

 

[Fubsy]

Unless I thought I was able to do the act myself and still feel alright about it, then I'll always be against.

I'm not one for having someone carrying out executions on my (societies) behalf.

 

[SexyGreyFox]

What's wrong with just executing those in favor?

Excuse me for having an opinion that has been born out of 58 years of experience. I used to be a tree hugger but not now.

 

[Caged]

Like Piers Morgan and Simon Cowell.

Well now I'm torn

 

[RaohNS]

Like Piers Morgan and Simon Cowell.

They think like that too???

 

[Dis86]

Hold on guys, just to throw some confusion in to the thread for us 'no' voters - Justin Bieber.

 

[Orionaut]

My choice on being averse to the death penalty is nothing to do with the rights of the guilty, and everything to do with the rights of the innocent.

But again, that is the problem.

When Captal Punishment was aboloished in the UK, the overall homicide rate was around 300/Pa. It has trended upwards ever since with around 1000/Pa ocurring in the early "Noughties"

Now, of course the population has grown somewhat since the sixties, but so has medical treatments so people are surviving murderous assaults that would have killed them 50 years ago.

Were we to infer that the abolition of Capital punishment was even only part of the reason for this rise, then the number of "Innocents" who have been subjected to murderous assault (which they survived) or were killed out right must have far outweighed any possible number of innocents executed even if every single executed convict was actually innocent (Most, even back then were commuted to life) had the death penalty remained in place.

Are the lives of the innocent victims really worth so much less than the lives of the people believed to have killed them??

 

[darreny]

You would need to check other factors alongside the rise like drug use, gangs, mental illness and even the internet

 

[RDM]

Were we to infer that the abolition of Capital punishment was even only part of the reason for this rise,

Your entire post hinges on this assumption for which there is no evidence. Almost all of the evidence points to the fact that the death penalty offers no deterrent effect.

 

[Raikiri]

But again, that is the problem.

When Captal Punishment was aboloished in the UK, the overall homicide rate was around 300/Pa. It has trended upwards ever since with around 1000/Pa ocurring in the early "Noughties"

Correlation ≠ causation.

Also the most recent data I can find says there were 518 homicides (2015), it peaked in 2002/3 (1041) and has been declining since.

Almost all of the evidence points to the fact that the death penalty offers no deterrent effect.

Yup. For example 9/10 US states with the highest murder rates have capital punishment. All of the top 5 do.

 

[timebomb26]

Are the lives of the innocent victims really worth so much less than the lives of the people believed to have killed them??

You say this, but are inferring that the ratio of people executed unfairly is outweighed by the number of guilty people executed and that this somehow makes capital punishment worth it.

I think the lives of innocent people are very important, and therefore don't want a system that could potentially see them executed.

 

[Tunney]

Are the lives of the innocent victims really worth so much less than the lives of the people believed to have killed them??

Those convicted of crimes they did not commit are also innocent victims.

(And as others have mentioned: correlation does not equal causation.)

 

[Danthus]

 

[Orionaut]

Correlation ≠ causation.

Trouble is, it is not possible to run a test, because there is no way of knowing what would have happened if capital punishment hadn't been abolished.

Certainly, Killings/Murderous_Assaults are occurring today under circumstances that simply didn't happen back in the 60's, despite the fact that Guns were much more readily available and every Schoolboy had a Knife (And many Schoolgirls too)

There is a sense that life is much cheaper today.

Even if the impression is an incorrect one, there is very much the impression that, While back in the 60's Murder=Gallows (Even if it mostly didn't) Nowadays, especially amongst younger people who have no cultural memory of the Gallows. Murder=out in a decade or less (Especially if you are a "Youth")

Also the most recent data I can find says there were 518 homicides (2015), it peaked in 2002/3 (1041) and has been declining since.

I admit I was taking something of an extreme. but even if only a small part of the increase was due to abolition, the numbers of innocents killed would still outweigh any number of wrongful executuions.

(And in any case, many of the supposedly "Wrongful" executions in the past or which might occur in the future are arguably on mitigating factors rather than the facts of the crime. EG Craig/Bentley. If Craig had been a bit older both would have Hanged and nobody would have cared!)

But the relevant figure to my mind is not the actual number of deaths, it is the number of "Murderous Assaults" (For which no clear figure is provided) Medical intervention is far better than it was in the past, even over the last ten years I would expect that people survive today who would not have done so 10 years ago.

Suggesting that the country is somehow a safer place and that the Murder rate has fallen because the victims of murderous assaults now get better medical treatment is a somewhat misleading argument!