oliver Cromwell put Drogheda `to the sword`
Any history buffs ? Why are Nazi worst in history
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oliver Cromwell put Drogheda `to the sword`
trying to remember where I saw it - but the USA had evidence of hitler and the extermination programme in 1942 , and they didn't believe it as `it was only the Jews`.
The brits used bio weapons against the Japanese in burhma - they dropped sealed china pots filled with infected mosquito`s to infect the Japanese troops.
remember , it costs more resources to care for an injured or sick soldier than to remove a body
My friend has worked in Porton Down. Needed level 2 clearance to go in and can't give any specifics of what was going on in there. All he could say was it was awful.
Where\when did you go to school, i remember being taught plenty about history, culture etc etc.
My illness is/was named after a Nazi doctor. Although most doctors still refer to it by his name, officially it's called something else now.
Soldato
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What one?
Ok, serious answer. The reason why Nazis are considered worst in history is not because they came first in a "who killed the most" competition of some sort, but because:
1. Nazis rose to power and murdered millions because democracy failed.
Unlike communist China or Russia the Nazis weren't brought up by a violent uprising or hateful mob usurping power. It wasn't "you either with us or you're dead" scenario - it was a direct effect of democracy. It was the will of minority and passiveness of the majority of people that gave Nazis permit to atrocities. Many people later commented on it being the first example of civic passiveness (including the famous quote of a protestant pastor: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out. Because I was not a Socialist." on so on).
When majority of people don't find a party that represents them, a well organised minority can rise to power (pay attention UKIP voters). At the peak of their support in 1932, NSDAP enjoyed only 33.09% of support at 80% of electorate, which means that only 1 in 4 Germans actively wanted them in power. In fact, before burning the Reichstag down and comandeering the absolute power by force, the Nazis were already loosing support and politically were on the way out - in presidential elections 1932 Hitler lost to Hindenburg 37 to 53%. But firm support of just 1/4 of the nation while the rest of the electorate was splintered among multiple opposition parties or on the fence, was enough. Proportional Representation system gave them majority of seats in Reichstag, they voted in all the powers they needed and everything else is history.
2. Nazis used philosophy, science and technology to excuse and to perform their deeds.
Yes, Mao and Stalin also performed mass atrocities inside their countries in the name of political classes or theories and used "the greater good of the fatherdom" as an excuse and yes, it is true that especially Russia had a long history of active anti semitism, but to be absolutely frank - nobody in 20th century was particularly surprised by wild east countries like China or Soviet Russia going psycho or "peasant revolutions" going off the rails. Even nowadays, by modern standards, the news that China would violate human rights of its citizens or fact that Russia attacks Ukraine or bombs one of its own suburbia states is not THAT much of a surprise to anyone, really. It's sick, but we don't really expect much of Russia - it's run by a guy who's either President or Prime Minister ever since we were born, he rides horses topless and sleeps with bears in winter, the country itself seems very brutal and violent - even a minor road rage scene can easily turn into gun shootout or baseball bat match - looking at what crazy russkies do is almost like weekend youtube entertainment to us.
Meanwhile, even in 1930ies, for a leading, central European country of honourable Prussian Generals, elite scientists, philosophers, theorist and doctors (before World War II, Germany had generated more Nobel laureates than any other nation) to turn around on the spot, flick the switch and gas few millions of civilians while the crowd is cheering, vivating and sieg heiling was a scenario nobody could believe or phantom.
Yet Nazis did exactly that, they employed philosophical model to mass murder "undesirables" using the betterment of humanity as an excuse . As in - "they are lesser species, the world needs to be cleansed of them, they need to be annihilated". It wasn't a tribe against tribe. It wasn't irreparable difference of political opinion and direction. It wasn't enemy combatant they pointed at. It wasn't an army of well-off neighbouring country they selected for public enemy. It was literally "if you don't like ******, now is your moment" permit for purge. They pointed at the individuals the crowd did not want in their neighbourhood - the people with darker eyes and hair running corner shops, people in the wheel chairs that couldn't fend for themselves and begged on the streets, at divergents - gays and trannies, at homeless sleeping in doorways, those annoying socialists handing leaflets on street corners, the creepy smiling preachers that knock on your door on Sunday to "talk about God" and stuff - they pointed at them all and said - "there's your problem, you have this non human element among you, remove them from society and you'll be better off". And the rest of the Germany, the first world, civilised, educated, European, modern society looked at what they were pointing at and nodded - "all right, if you say so".
3. The timescale and volume
When we talk about soviet crimes, crimes of Stalinism etc, we talk about decades. Decades of messy, dirty, internal secret partisan war fought one denunciation, one individual, one group at a time. The "total solution" took merely months. The first Auschwitz I opened its gates to mass transports in May 1940. In November 1944, by the order of Himmler gassing operations ceased across the entire Reich. During 4 years 6 months 15 to 20 million civilian non-combatants lost their lives in process, on industrial scale never encountered before or since.
It's not just about pure numbers, it's about clockwork meat grinder like efficiency and volume of the process - it was methodically organised, mathematically computed, technologically innovated, industrially developed, built for purpose and theatrically arranged for increased efficiency annihilation. En masse gassing of everyone who wasn't usable. Women. Children. Elderly. Handicapped. Weak. Alike. Zyklon B in "showers". While their belongings and teeth were recycled for precious metals. Ordered, documented, paperwork approved, calculated from the time scheduled railway throughput per day on pan-European level all the way down to "shower" barrack capacity per hour and layering techniques improving square mileage of mass graves. Nothing was ever late, nothing was not done, nobody went on strike or complained to their supervisor about workload in the process. Those that survived selection were either utilised to death or medically experimented on (including kids).
And all of that because... them aliens. Because "this land is ours" and they come to take what's ours. Because lip trembling, flag saluting, teary eye "let's make Germany The Great Reich Again". Because the family living next door or running corner shop looked different. Spoke in tongues. They walk like we do. They talk like we do. But they're not one of us. It happened here. Next door.
1. Nazis rose to power and murdered millions because democracy failed.
Unlike communist China or Russia the Nazis weren't brought up by a violent uprising or hateful mob usurping power. It wasn't "you either with us or you're dead" scenario - it was a direct effect of democracy. It was the will of minority and passiveness of the majority of people that gave Nazis permit to atrocities. Many people later commented on it being the first example of civic passiveness (including the famous quote of a protestant pastor: "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out. Because I was not a Socialist." on so on).
When majority of people don't find a party that represents them, a well organised minority can rise to power (pay attention UKIP voters). At the peak of their support in 1932, NSDAP enjoyed only 33.09% of support at 80% of electorate, which means that only 1 in 4 Germans actively wanted them in power. In fact, before burning the Reichstag down and comandeering the absolute power by force, the Nazis were already loosing support and politically were on the way out - in presidential elections 1932 Hitler lost to Hindenburg 37 to 53%. But firm support of just 1/4 of the nation while the rest of the electorate was splintered among multiple opposition parties or on the fence, was enough. Proportional Representation system gave them majority of seats in Reichstag, they voted in all the powers they needed and everything else is history.
2. Nazis used philosophy, science and technology to excuse and to perform their deeds.
Yes, Mao and Stalin also performed mass atrocities inside their countries in the name of political classes or theories and used "the greater good of the fatherdom" as an excuse and yes, it is true that especially Russia had a long history of active anti semitism, but to be absolutely frank - nobody in 20th century was particularly surprised by wild east countries like China or Soviet Russia going psycho or "peasant revolutions" going off the rails. Even nowadays, by modern standards, the news that China would violate human rights of its citizens or fact that Russia attacks Ukraine or bombs one of its own suburbia states is not THAT much of a surprise to anyone, really. It's sick, but we don't really expect much of Russia - it's run by a guy who's either President or Prime Minister ever since we were born, he rides horses topless and sleeps with bears in winter, the country itself seems very brutal and violent - even a minor road rage scene can easily turn into gun shootout or baseball bat match - looking at what crazy russkies do is almost like weekend youtube entertainment to us.
Meanwhile, even in 1930ies, for a leading, central European country of honourable Prussian Generals, elite scientists, philosophers, theorist and doctors (before World War II, Germany had generated more Nobel laureates than any other nation) to turn around on the spot, flick the switch and gas few millions of civilians while the crowd is cheering, vivating and sieg heiling was a scenario nobody could believe or phantom.
Yet Nazis did exactly that, they employed philosophical model to mass murder "undesirables" using the betterment of humanity as an excuse . As in - "they are lesser species, the world needs to be cleansed of them, they need to be annihilated". It wasn't a tribe against tribe. It wasn't irreparable difference of political opinion and direction. It wasn't enemy combatant they pointed at. It wasn't an army of well-off neighbouring country they selected for public enemy. It was literally "if you don't like ******, now is your moment" permit for purge. They pointed at the individuals the crowd did not want in their neighbourhood - the people with darker eyes and hair running corner shops, people in the wheel chairs that couldn't fend for themselves and begged on the streets, at divergents - gays and trannies, at homeless sleeping in doorways, those annoying socialists handing leaflets on street corners, the creepy smiling preachers that knock on your door on Sunday to "talk about God" and stuff - they pointed at them all and said - "there's your problem, you have this non human element among you, remove them from society and you'll be better off". And the rest of the Germany, the first world, civilised, educated, European, modern society looked at what they were pointing at and nodded - "all right, if you say so".
3. The timescale and volume
When we talk about soviet crimes, crimes of Stalinism etc, we talk about decades. Decades of messy, dirty, internal secret partisan war fought one denunciation, one individual, one group at a time. The "total solution" took merely months. The first Auschwitz I opened its gates to mass transports in May 1940. In November 1944, by the order of Himmler gassing operations ceased across the entire Reich. During 4 years 6 months 15 to 20 million civilian non-combatants lost their lives in process, on industrial scale never encountered before or since.
It's not just about pure numbers, it's about clockwork meat grinder like efficiency and volume of the process - it was methodically organised, mathematically computed, technologically innovated, industrially developed, built for purpose and theatrically arranged for increased efficiency annihilation. En masse gassing of everyone who wasn't usable. Women. Children. Elderly. Handicapped. Weak. Alike. Zyklon B in "showers". While their belongings and teeth were recycled for precious metals. Ordered, documented, paperwork approved, calculated from the time scheduled railway throughput per day on pan-European level all the way down to "shower" barrack capacity per hour and layering techniques improving square mileage of mass graves. Nothing was ever late, nothing was not done, nobody went on strike or complained to their supervisor about workload in the process. Those that survived selection were either utilised to death or medically experimented on (including kids).
And all of that because... them aliens. Because "this land is ours" and they come to take what's ours. Because lip trembling, flag saluting, teary eye "let's make Germany The Great Reich Again". Because the family living next door or running corner shop looked different. Spoke in tongues. They walk like we do. They talk like we do. But they're not one of us. It happened here. Next door.
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Yes it is debatable. Here's a list of medical eponyms with Nazi associations. Aspergers is on the list despite the uncertainty.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_medical_eponyms_with_Nazi_associations
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As I said if you refused to surrender you got sacked, it was seen as license to rape, rob and murder by the ordinary soldiers who got paid nothing but had to be present by order of their Lord. Drogheda was bad but not as bad as Berwick after Edward finished. He killed everything including the animals.
Soldato
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Somewhat cruel for Fritz Haber, probably less so as he died before the second war. He created Zyklon, which was modified to Zyklon. He was the father of modern fertilizers, by creating wonderful nitrogen rich methods of fertilizer production. Then WW1 came along and he basically created chemical warfare, going to the front line to demonstrate and utilizer chlorine gas weapons. War ended, created Zyklon.
Nazi's decided they didn't like Jews, Haber left, died on the train on the way to Palestine to escape Nazi Germany.
Then his gas was modified to wipe his fellow Jews out.
Nazi's decided they didn't like Jews, Haber left, died on the train on the way to Palestine to escape Nazi Germany.
Then his gas was modified to wipe his fellow Jews out.
Wegeners
But again, Ottoman empire was a savage force with medieval reasoning. Nazis rose to power in the middle of modern renaissance - that decade Europe utilised first radio telescope, injected first antibiotic, took first polaroid, listened to the first stereo vinyl, made nylon and teflon, and while young Heisenberg and Schrödinger were discussing new work of Einstein and Planck, somewhere next room someone arrived at the conclusion that Gypsies and Jews weren't actually human species and it was ok to eradicate few million of them.
That depends on your perspective - what they did , they did in their opinion for the greater good of the true peoples. What difference then to Nazi Germany? and I totally disagree with your conjecture they were savages.
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Given how the Japanese treat their POW's it should have been something a great deal worse (source: my uncle was a POW for over 3 years in Burma and they were treat as sub human).
IMO we study Nazi Germany for a few reasons:
Firstly we won. Therefore we write the history while neglecting our own more questionable actions. Makes us look good, makes us feel good (as long as you don't look to beneath the surface).
Secondly its a fascinating period of history easily presented. Good, ourselves and our allies, against the bad, Germany and her allies. Nazi's evil, allies good.
There are many events in history, as the OP is becoming aware of, that should be studied and deserve far more acknowledgement. Having said that as an adult (assuming) the internet gives every one the opportunity to look for themselves and I can't recommend that enough. Just careful of your sources
(looking at the holocaust denial idiot from earlier in the thread (question the numbers not the event))The difference is exactly that - one is a fringe, tribal, nearly medieval force, the other is civilised country in the middle of modern world. If Ottoman empire emerged from dark times to become a modern 20th century society of scientists, philosophers and poets and then design methodical way of industrially murder tens of millions of people in a very short time - I'm sure we would now use "grammar ottie" instead of "grammar nazi" as a pejorative term. Meanwhile, though, they were what they were, and to most of the observers, whether Ottoman Empire were there or not, didn't make a massive difference to the volatility of the region. In short - it's not like the entire world east to west had to gather together to knock them the ef down, like it was the case with the Reich, so with all due respect to Ottoman killing force and their prospective body count, I'm afraid to say - as far as the "worst guys in history" competition goes - Nazi Germany still holds their own.
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