'Outrage as police officers armed with huge guns pose with children at Christmas market'

[peige]

I listened to Vine doing a debate about this yesterday and the outrage was palapable from the person they got on to be against it

The only interesting point was from an ex copper who messaged in to say that as somebody who regularly carried firearms the wisdom then was to avoid this type of photo but not to shy away from being present. The thought was that if you ever did need to use your firearm and it resulted in death the last thing you would want is a picture of that officer grinning with his gun on the front page of the Sun.

 

[TrafficMaster]

I do not think this has a bad effect on kids, they just think its cool. Hopefully it will give them more respect for the law than the current generation have.

 

[Brizzles]

How dare the armed police engage the public and smile to show they are human beings.

I expect armed police at all times to ;

Wear balaclavas
Knee slide across car bonnets
Shout ' CLEAR ' every time they go round a corner or enter a room

Outrageous behaviour

 

[Katanga]

For me, its like a poster in this thread described better than I could, its a bit of innocence lost but I guess we are all going to have to get used to seeing armed Police on our streets a lot more in the future, kinda sad but kinda re-assuring too, these are bad times we live in after all.

The innocence lost part I and perhaps the guy that used that phrase in this thread probably meant was, at this time of year young kids traditionally would like to pose with Santa, now its Men in Uniform with serious guns and that's a little bit sad

Makes that story about the kid dying in Santa's arms all the more sad.

Seriously, if we have to have armed Policemen patrol Christmas shopping marts like this I'm glad its our well trained UK Police rather than what might happen in America Christmas mart patrol wise? (does that happen there?) not knocking them one bit, especially the guys in the picture that must have been asked permission by the kids parents for the pictures to be taken, total faith and trust in them, more so than your regular on the beat Policeman because of the training they must have had to carry like that.

 

[chroniclard]

I would fully expect my kids to be thrilled to have a pic with those two officers.

 

[MooMoo444]

Little me seeing those officers with guns and enjoying their job posing with families etc would have motivated me into wanting to be one. I really don't see the fuss here. They're making a presence, making people feel safe, and acting approachable.

Just your average fuss over nothing in the news.

 

[asim18]

the latest attacks haven't been simple bombings nice, btaclan, Charlie hebo, the stabbings through out europe and the us.

they're more lone wolves with vehicles and weapons which an armed officer on scene is very useful to have.

as for an uprising, that's what the army is for, not a hand full of armed officers at a Christmas market.

Isn't this about guns?

How likely is it that an officer will unload his machine gun at a knife wielding person, in a square full of people and children, rather than simply tasering him?

A gun still isn't justified nor required in your alternative situation.

 

[FurryLemon]

Dont see the problem. Armed police everywere here. People (normal ones) jyst ignore them and go about their business.

 

[Rroff]

If you think about this logically, you are somewhat right.

The first part of the sentence is certainly true for a larger proportion of time than it is certainly false. How many random terrorist attacks has a bystander with a gun managed to stop? How many random terrorist attacks can you say for certain will be stopped simply because there was a guy/officer with a gun nearby?

Shooting a machine gun in a packed square during Christmas is pretty stupid thing to do once a terrorist has probably already blown himself up at the other corner of the square. I mean it just doesn't make sense. In this situation it simply doesn't make sense because an attacker could walk right up to anyone and push a button and they wouldn't have a clue let alone any time to turn off the safety. They don't have some sort of magic senses. This is why it's a stupid to assume they're there to stop a terrorist attack; this is real life, not a movie. To "stop" a terrorist attack you need to have prior intelligence (this does not justify nor require having random officers with guns), and then again it would be an utterly disastrous idea/charade to decide to start "stopping" only once they've gotten to the middle of a packed square.



Not sure about the uprising part though I think we should save that for another thread.

This isn't America the police here generally don't just go full auto and compete to see who can unload the most rounds the moment things kick off.

While in a live incident you can't control every variable and training can completely go out the window under the pressure of the moment police are trained to watch their backgrounds, etc. when shooting - there have been plenty of terrorist incidents that combine bomb attacks with roving shooters, etc. and a trained response is totally different to a random bystander with a gun - though if you look at say the Westgate mall attack 2 dozen lives were likely spared when 2 bystanders who happened to be armed went in to see what they could do.

 

[Tefal]

Isn't this about guns?

How likely is it that an officer will unload his machine gun at a knife wielding person, in a square full of people and children, rather than simply tasering him?

A gun still isn't justified nor required in your alternative situation.

probably very likely. hence why the police use hollow points so they dont go through people.

Tasers dont always work, are hard to aim, require you to be very close and are inaccurate (and can be defeated with relative ease you can buy or make a carbon fibre lined top that stops them working for a few quid)

A trained police officer will be far more likely to hit with his pistol or the semi automatic rifle he is carrying and it is much more likely to put the guy down quickly.

hence why they shot the nice attacker and numerous stabbing attackers, cant taser a guy in a truck

 

[Rroff]

probably very likely. hence why the police use hollow points so they dont go through people.

Tasers dont always work, are hard to aim, require you to be very close and are inaccurate (and can be defeated with relative ease you can buy or make a carbon fibre lined top that stops them working for a few quid)

A trained police officer will be far more likely to hit with his pistol or the semi automatic rifle he is carrying and it is much more likely to put the guy down quickly.

hence why they shot the nice attacker and numerous stabbing attackers, cant taser a guy in a truck

In a good number of incidents they've been tooled up with populated (sometimes improvised) plate carriers, knee/shoulder pads, combat trousers, etc. which doesn't present an easy target to taser anyhow even if you would risk your life trying to taser someone in that situation which in most cases would be utterly stupid compared to shooting them.

 

[Roar87]

Dont see the problem. Armed police everywere here. People (normal ones) jyst ignore them and go about their business.

Yeah Paris was crazy when we went earlier in the year, the Eiffel tower was heavily guarded with the type of patrols you'd expect to see in Afghanistan. Great to see though.

 

[StriderX]

I guess people want fascism, perhaps i'll just capitulate to this clearly superior opinion.

 

[Mynight]

I guess people want fascism, perhaps i'll just capitulate to this clearly superior opinion.

Please expand on that(Think I'll regret this). How is armed officers at an event like this anything to do with fascism?

 

[StriderX]

Please expand on that(Think I'll regret this). How is armed officers at an event like this anything to do with fascism?

When combined with everything else going on, its easily abused.

If Government were competent i'd be worried about Snoopers a bit more, but I still see where this leads and considering the populism of late, i just don't trust the denizens of this country to not walk into Nazi Britain with open arms. I have zero tolerance of such normalisation, Terrorism is such a minor concern it beggars belief.

 

[swain90]

I could kind of understand if they looked like this;

(Taiwan special forces for anyone interested)

However I don't see it as a big issue, you see armed guards at the airport and I'm sure the vast majority of people complaining have been to an airport before.

 

[Cosimo]

The police don't carry guns to protect us from a terrorist attack, they carry guns to protect the ruling class against an uprising.

Don't worry comrade, they'll come for you first...

 

[Roar87]

I guess people want fascism, perhaps i'll just capitulate to this clearly superior opinion.

Armed Police on the streets smiling and protecting their fellow citizens from the very real substantiated threat of mass killings by terrorists isn't fascism mate.

 

[Rroff]

When combined with everything else going on, its easily abused.

If Government were competent i'd be worried about Snoopers a bit more, but I still see where this leads and considering the populism of late, i just don't trust the denizens of this country to not walk into Nazi Britain with open arms. I have zero tolerance of such normalisation, Terrorism is such a minor concern it beggars belief.

Not something that should be dismissed lightly but we are a long way from that yet - its not really any different to the response at the height of the IRA troubles, etc. which people seem to have forgot.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I could kind of understand if they looked like this;

(Taiwan special forces for anyone interested)

However I don't see it as a big issue, you see armed guards at the airport and I'm sure the vast majority of people complaining have been to an airport before.

Thats quite the police officer, you think he knows this guy: