All police to have degrees!

[asim18]

So you've posted some links to books that could say absolutely anything and some links relating to the US.

Top source material for the UK police force.

So is the fact that I haven't included a "link" for the Met evidence that the Met is looking to employ geniuses?

A distinction isn't required for this argument. A police force is a police force. They have a very limited duty which is to uphold law whether it is some little sheriff's office out in the desert or the Met, and do it without question if possible.

 

[neil_g]

Perhaps you could provide some sources which say Police officers are expected to be geniuses or genii.

which is not what i said at all.

all of the bobbies i know have what id consider a normal education level and contrary to what you blindly seem to be suggesting can and do think for themselves.

 

[Marky]

Seems really silly - Uni students are left with big debts - I doubt they'll be rushing to get a job with the police when the starting salary is around £20k-£24k. In addition, they'll be outright ignoring the perfectly capable people who can't afford to go to University. Who makes plans like this?

 

[asim18]

which is not what i said at all.

all of the bobbies i know have what id consider a normal education level and contrary to what you blindly seem to be suggesting can and do think for themselves.

Well then that isn't what I said either. I'm sure they can do and think for themselves. But when in uniform and on duty it is advantageous to not think about how silly female ejaculation law is.

I didn't say they have some innate disability to think, nor does a low IQ suggest that the person cant "think for themselves". The main point is they need to be compliant following orders and upholding laws, the problem is that some of these laws are obviously silly.

 

[Tunney]

There will be three options at entry level:

- A three-year police constable degree apprenticeship paid for by the force, allowing individuals to "earn while they learn" - spending 80% of their time on the frontline, and the rest completing their degree while receiving a salary

- A practical policing degree, as seen in other professions, where the student would complete a three-year self-funded course and apply for a job once qualified

- For graduates, a six-month postgraduate conversion course funded by the police

So this is just a way to fast-track those with real degrees then? People without degrees can join the police but must complete training on the job.

How is that different from the current system apart from some extra admin?

 

[terley]

The Police are expected to carry out a large amount of paperwork. I expect half of the force is not capable of stringing words together correctly. Hence needing an education.

Although, wouldn't college or A level be fine?

If you see the level of ability college/A-level students have.. You'd realize they are equally as hopeless as high school students.

 

[dowie]

Seems a bit ridiculous - both grads and non-grads joining the army as officers attend the same year long commissioning course and they're going straight into a command appointment often leading/managing 30 people upon finishing the course. It isn't like all degrees are the same anyway - why can't a good a-level grad take the same initial training course as another police recruit who happens to have a random degree in any subject. Instead they need some strung out training program that results in a 'degree'.

This obsession with degrees just seems a bit ridiculous.

 

[Diagro]

"passing written test" does not equate to having excellent literary skills. Isn't it a well known fact that police officers are chosen based on their compliancy and even sometimes low IQ and ability to follow orders blindly without question or morality?


I still remember when I explained drug laws to a police officer once, he was almost in tears when I helped him understand what the law was really for, and how it was simply impossible for it to work. Most officers even today are heavily doctored. They get fed a lot of BS which they're not allowed to question.

This is just a charade to fill the police force with more compliant officers who don't have a "real" clue and will follow orders blindly.

It needs to be done with all the BS laws they're imposing these days like trying to make it illegal to watch a woman squirting, etc. They need fully compliant officers who don't ask questions. Making them do a special "degree" just means they can doctor the police force to the ideals required for governmental goals.

You can bet part of this new degree will be how watching a woman squirting is ruining humanity, raising crime, and more BS, etc.

This is a family forum! Clear up that language!

 

[SPG]

This makes perfect sense.

Where else are all those that did ART(s), HISTORY, MEDIA Studies 99.8% of Humanities and English going to use there degrees apart from teaching.

 

[manic_man]

Nursing has required a degree-level qualification for a while now.

I don't think introducing something similar for policing is unrealistic or unwarranted.

What is in question is whether this should be so academic in nature or whether it should be far more like a practical qualification like an NVQ. The issue here is the use of the word "degree", as that means a certain level of classical academic training, which arguably won't make for a better police officer.

I think what this really points to is that the Police are saying they can/should no longer be the sole training resource for their future officers, hopefully it will all be far better defined in the coming few years.

If Brexit and the Snooper charter are anything to go by though, it won't be and it'll all be a complete male chicken up.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Although, wouldn't college or A level be fine?

Probably used to be, but I wouldn't rate the standards to get GCSE or A level as that high these days. The first year of University is largely spent getting everybody up to the level necessary to start studying at degree level. And degrees in turn suffer because of that. A reasonably intelligent person of 16 who puts in a moderate amount of effort ought to get straight A's across the board at GCSE. To actually fail them would be impressive. A level is better but hardly a sign of anything much more than effort.

 

[h4rm0ny]

They're just limiting who they can hire really, there's nothing so complex that someone with A levels can't do the job.

I hadn't considered it as a method of reducing application numbers. In that light, it makes sense as a way of doing so covertly. It introduces bias towards having police come from better off backgrounds. No doubt asim18 will point out that this has the effect of further increasing a bias towards social control by the establishment... And I'm not sure I'd disagree!

 

[arc@css]

I thought they already required them for entry. Obviously not.

 

[Semple]

Great another pointless degree being added to our long list of offerings.

For specialist policing units, then yes absolutely a degree is needed - for example the cyber unit. But considering most of the police force have just a general role of driving/patrolling, what a waste of time a degree is going to be.

 

[h4rm0ny]

Funnily enough I know a guy with 3 decent degrees and that's exactly what he does.

He saves on gym membership and has afternoons and evenings free, I bet! May not be so daft after all. I bet the pay is awful, though.

 

[SPG]

Great another pointless degree being added to our long list of offerings.

For specialist policing units, then yes absolutely a degree is needed - for example the cyber unit. But considering most of the police force have just a general role of driving/patrolling, what a waste of time a degree is going to be.

Wrong on every level.

A degree is meaningless, I would sooner take someone who has worked in a forensic lab as a school leaver with 3 or 4 years under there belt than a school leaver who has been to uni studying the same subject.

The truth of the matter is a degree takes someone out of a unemployment statistic, or is that me being cynical

Pathetic on all levels.

 

[Andy90]

I joined the Police in 1987. I had 9 O levels, and 3 A Levels (the grades on these weren't particularly good!). I was 19 and hadn't gone to University.

My parents lived in a Terraced house, still do in fact and I was one of three Brothers, the eldest.

Whilst my parents weren't poor, the weren't awash with money, what you would call honest working class people.

I passed the fitness tests, the written tests, which were basic Mathematics, English comprehension and a few logic tests and then did a 2 day sort of outward bound course. Few more interviews with Special Branch, a Home visit and I got in.

14 Weeks of basic training, 10 weeks in company with a Tutor Constable and then 2 years probation (they can get rid of you at any time very easily) and then I was confirmed in post.

29 years later, I'm coming to the end of my Policing Career and despite not having a Degree, I've not really had any problems comprehending what legislation I need to use or how to apply it.

A Degree cannot teach you common sense, it cannot teach you manners, it cannot teach you how to be respectful or compassionate when required, it cannot give you inner strength to pull through dangerous or awful circumstances.

If this comes to pass the Police will be drawn increasingly from a small proportion of society, barring certain groups who cannot afford to get the degree.

Policing is by consent and Officers should reflect the population they serve.

I'm already seeing the effects of this policy and I can tell you it isn't good.

 

[Burnsy2023]

So this is just a way to fast-track those with real degrees then? People without degrees can join the police but must complete training on the job.

How is that different from the current system apart from some extra admin?

The main difference is the learning would have to be externally accedited and recognised.

 

[Roar87]

I don't know why people bother responding to asim, he'll argue 2+2=5 on here, I'm convinced he's an elaborate troll

 

[Burnsy2023]

I joined the Police in 1987. I had 9 O levels, and 3 A Levels (the grades on these weren't particularly good!). I was 19 and hadn't gone to University.

My parents lived in a Terraced house, still do in fact and I was one of three Brothers, the eldest.

Whilst my parents weren't poor, the weren't awash with money, what you would call honest working class people.

I passed the fitness tests, the written tests, which were basic Mathematics, English comprehension and a few logic tests and then did a 2 day sort of outward bound course. Few more interviews with Special Branch, a Home visit and I got in.

14 Weeks of basic training, 10 weeks in company with a Tutor Constable and then 2 years probation (they can get rid of you at any time very easily) and then I was confirmed in post.

29 years later, I'm coming to the end of my Policing Career and despite not having a Degree, I've not really had any problems comprehending what legislation I need to use or how to apply it.

A Degree cannot teach you common sense, it cannot teach you manners, it cannot teach you how to be respectful or compassionate when required, it cannot give you inner strength to pull through dangerous or awful circumstances.

If this comes to pass the Police will be drawn increasingly from a small proportion of society, barring certain groups who cannot afford to get the degree.

Policing is by consent and Officers should reflect the population they serve.

I'm already seeing the effects of Degree entry, and I can tell you it isn't good.

Just out of curiosity, would you mind going through all the roles you've had and how long you've done each for? No problem if you don't feel comfortable, but I'd be interested in seeing that.