Dipped beams = too bright , auto wipers = arghh, rear saloon wipers = ?!?!

[Howard]

I still maintain that having everything done automatically makes people lazy drivers and over-reliant on the vehicle... as well as it being more expense to fix when it goes wrong

People probably used to spout this sort of nonsense when things like starter motors and electric windows and electronic fuel injection first came about, too. What's wrong with a good old manual choke? I want to control the amount of fuel intake, not the car!

 

[TheVoice]

I did say half.
If they were that good back then, why do more expensive modern cars not all come with this stuff as standard today?

Many do.

 

[ttaskmaster]

People probably used to spout this sort of nonsense when things like starter motors and electric windows and electronic fuel injection first came about, too.

Some bikes still have a kick start.
But it's not like an automatic rain sensor saves you the possibility of a kickback and brokem limb now, is it. "Oh no, I went to flick the wiper arm and it bounced back, shattering all the bones in my hand... if only someone made a rain sensor..."
So I assume you'll be first in the queue for a car that switches on the indicator the moment it senses you might want the next turning... ?

They *are* whining about all the fiddly bits, how all the soul and fun of driving is gone, how people don't have lights properly adjusted, how people don't have lights on when they should because they assume the car will do everything for them...

Mostly whining how you need expensive software and computers to fix it, rather than just taking it to a mechanic or sorting it yourself with a Haynes manual...

What's wrong with a good old manual choke? I want to control the amount of fuel intake, not the car!

It was years before I even realised cars don't come with a choke knob any more.
But it's down to what people want - Clearly they want manual wipers, as so many cars still come with them. Same for manual gear shifts, in spite of amaaaaaaaaayzing advances in auto boxes... not that they use the autos correctly either, judging from responses above.

Many do.

But not ALL....

 

[[TW]Fox]

For me the soul and fun of driving is not derived from constantly adjusting the speed of my wipers.

 

[Howard]

Some bikes still have a kick start.
But it's not like an automatic rain sensor saves you the possibility of a kickback and brokem limb now, is it. "Oh no, I went to flick the wiper arm and it bounced back, shattering all the bones in my hand... if only someone made a rain sensor..."
So I assume you'll be first in the queue for a car that switches on the indicator the moment it senses you might want the next turning... ?

They *are* whining about all the fiddly bits, how all the soul and fun of driving is gone, how people don't have lights properly adjusted, how people don't have lights on when they should because they assume the car will do everything for them...

Mostly whining how you need expensive software and computers to fix it, rather than just taking it to a mechanic or sorting it yourself with a Haynes manual...


It was years before I even realised cars don't come with a choke knob any more.
But it's down to what people want - Clearly they want manual wipers, as so many cars still come with them. Same for manual gear shifts, in spite of amaaaaaaaaayzing advances in auto boxes... not that they use the autos correctly either, judging from responses above.


But not ALL....

It's called technological progress. "They" still make cars without certain features because they can add these features as optional extras or to a higher trim level and charge more for it. It then keeps the base price of the car down.

Also, I dare say cars nowadays with all their unnecessary baffling space-age technological wizardry are a lot more reliable than cars were back in the good old days.


It's OK to admit you're a luddite

 

[TheVoice]

But it's down to what people want - Clearly they want manual wipers, as so many cars still come with them. Same for manual gear shifts, in spite of amaaaaaaaaayzing advances in auto boxes... not that they use the autos correctly either, judging from responses above.

Well no, it's largely down to cost. The option for an auto boxes cost more, same as the option (or spec level) for automatic lights, wipers, climate control etc cost more or are only standard on more expensive models. Nobody really buys a car thinking "It must have manual wipers and and a vague hot-cold dial for the heater". Well, almost nobody.

But not ALL....

Not all cars have electric rear windows either, does that mean they're "not that good"?

 

[Gaygle]

It's OK to admit you're a luddite

This basically.

Having said that - I like progression, I like new gadgets and I like in car technology. However I don't like electronic handbrakes.

 

[ttaskmaster]

For me the soul and fun of driving is not derived from constantly adjusting the speed of my wipers.

Heavy rain, light rain, drizzle... how many more kinds of rain are there, that you need to keep messing with your wipers so?
You're not Forrest Gump, are you?

It's OK to admit you're a luddite

I'm not a complete luddite... I just prefer a lot of the older stuff. I'm not a fan of touchscreens, because I prefer the tactile feedback of proper keys and buttons, for example. I prefer an old fashioned drum kit because the electronic ones still aren't as good in terms of feedback and performance or volume range.
Plus many cars even look the same to me these days - They're mostly Astra or Mondeo shaped. If I can't tell what it is without having to look at the rear badges, it's a dull car!!

Nobody really buys a car thinking "It must have manual wipers and and a vague hot-cold dial for the heater". Well, almost nobody.

I've been specifically looking at cars where the indicator clicks into ON positions rather than the newer style that just toggles and has a 2-stage action for motorway lane changes. I even took a new-ish model BMW Somethingorother out, but all the fancy bits and pieces just made for a horribly detached feel to the drive. I'd probably have zoned out or fallen alseep if I had to do long distance in that thing!

Not all cars have electric rear windows either, does that mean they're "not that good"?

Depends on the car and the driver's uses. Only time I've needed rear windows to even go down is to see if my dogs would stick their heads out the window!
But you'd think a decent spec Mercedes saloon would have a rear wiper, but apparently the design meant it didn't need one at all... I'd disagree.
Not every technological 'advancement' is good.

 

[Rilot]

But you'd think a decent spec Mercedes saloon would have a rear wiper, but apparently the design meant it didn't need one at all... I'd disagree.

I'm struggling to think of any saloon car that has a rear wash/wipe. My XJ certainly doesn't have one and neither did my 7-series, 5-series, S-Type, etc.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Heavy rain, light rain, drizzle... how many more kinds of rain are there, that you need to keep messing with your wipers so?
You're not Forrest Gump, are you?

It's hard to explain just how useful it is until you've got proper experience of both systems - I drive two cars regularly, mine have had rain sensing wipers for 10 years, unfortunately hers does not. It's really quite obvious how good they are once you are driving without them! They react perfectly to everything from variable rain conditions through to that momentary spray you get passing a truck.

You still have to switch them on when it rains the first time in a journey, but once it's on, it takes care of everything and just.. works.

But you'd think a decent spec Mercedes saloon would have a rear wiper, but apparently the design meant it didn't need one at all... I'd disagree.
Not every technological 'advancement' is good.

Saloons do not have rear wipers because they are not required due to the way the air moves over the saloon body shape. As a result, rain does not settle on the rear screen whilst the car is in motion and quickly clears once you set off from a standstill. Mud and spray does not accumulate on the rear window of a saloon in the way it does on a hatchback or an estate.

This is why a Mercedes E Class Saloon has no rear wiper but an E Class estate does - only the estate needs it!

 

[Django x2]

I've owned many cars with HIDs and auto-levelling and none of them have had an internal adjustment for height. I thought the two features were mutually exclusive. My Mrs' CR-V doesn't have HIDs and does have the internal adjustment.

Except I can guarantee the car in your signature has a beam adjust. It just won't be mentioned in the manual as it's never likely to need owner input. My D4 had a new headlight, genuine OEM fitted, by me, and I needed to adjust the beam down using the small grey knurl wheel just inside the unit. No mention of it in the manual.

 

[BluD]

Do the same people who have trouble with bright headlights also find it difficult to drive on very sunny days without using sunglasses? I always wonder how the hell people drive without sunglasses on very sunny days but it seems some people just arent as sensitive to the light, i guessing sitting in darkened rooms staring at computer screens for years has left some of us with rubbish eyes

 

[[TW]Fox]

Except I can guarantee the car in your signature has a beam adjust. It just won't be mentioned in the manual as it's never likely to need owner input. My D4 had a new headlight, genuine OEM fitted, by me, and I needed to adjust the beam down using the small grey knurl wheel just inside the unit. No mention of it in the manual.

You're both right - he says he has never had an adjuster inside the cabin, which he hasn't. You say that every single headlight unit will have manual adjustment ability on the unit itself - which is exactly correct and is how headlights are adjusted if required for the MOT

 

[ttaskmaster]

I'm struggling to think of any saloon car that has a rear wash/wipe. My XJ certainly doesn't have one and neither did my 7-series, 5-series, S-Type, etc.

It's a legal requirement on saloons/sedans in Japan:

Mazda 323
Toyota Corolla
Subaru WRX
Peugeot 307 (optional)
Ford Orion
Mitsubishi Galant VR4
Skoda Octavia... sort of. Technically a hatchback, but the bum is definitely a saloon shape.

It's hard to explain just how useful it is until you've got proper experience of both systems

I believe I'll get the chance soon, but I remain highly skeptical and not the slightest bit convinced...

You still have to switch them on when it rains the first time in a journey, but once it's on, it takes care of everything and just.. works.

Oh WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???!!!
Now if they're gonna make something like that, I at least expect it to be properly fully automatic... that's just a rip off!!!

This is why a Mercedes E Class Saloon has no rear wiper but an E Class estate does - only the estate needs it!

Well their design was utter tosh on the C-Class saloon, because that DEFINITELY needed one!!

Do the same people who have trouble with bright headlights also find it difficult to drive on very sunny days without using sunglasses?

Not always. Mainly when the sun is low and in my face, below the visor or coming through the space around the rear view.

I am more sensitive to bright lights, but I'm not exactly staring into the oncomings' either. It's just those that are overly bright and badly aimed that present a particular problem... just as bad when they're behind and the glare from even my tiny bike mirrors completely blinds me.

You're both right - he says he has never had an adjuster inside the cabin, which he hasn't. You say that every single headlight unit will have manual adjustment ability on the unit itself - which is exactly correct and is how headlights are adjusted if required for the MOT

One is the levelling adjusters (in cabin) and the other is the set of aim adjusters (back of headlight unit).

 

[Conscript]

Oh WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAT???!!!
Now if they're gonna make something like that, I at least expect it to be properly fully automatic... that's just a rip off!!!

Not really. It's arguably better if the system only controls the frequency of the wipe automatically. Otherwise in the winter, when you screen has a load of dirty road spray all over it, the wipers will activate but won't spray the screenwash, so you end up smearing crap all over the screen.

 

[adolf hamster]

Not really. It's arguably better if the system only controls the frequency of the wipe automatically. Otherwise in the winter, when you screen has a load of dirty road spray all over it, the wipers will activate but won't spray the screenwash, so you end up smearing crap all over the screen.

spot on, you can over-ride it too with full wiping when its really rainy, basically it serves as a self-timing intermittent wiper and nothing more.

Do the same people who have trouble with bright headlights also find it difficult to drive on very sunny days without using sunglasses? I always wonder how the hell people drive without sunglasses on very sunny days but it seems some people just arent as sensitive to the light, i guessing sitting in darkened rooms staring at computer screens for years has left some of us with rubbish eyes

winter sun can be a pita, but that's a bright thing in a bright environment, it's the contrast of a bright thing in a very dark environment is the issue.

plus the sun illuminates the roads for you.

 

[ttaskmaster]

Not really. It's arguably better if the system only controls the frequency of the wipe automatically. Otherwise in the winter, when you screen has a load of dirty road spray all over it, the wipers will activate but won't spray the screenwash, so you end up smearing crap all over the screen.

Oh, so now I have to have a tutorial on how to use windscreen wipers, and when I do and don't have to switch them on and off or use the wash function... as well as remembering to turn the sensor sensitivity setting off and back on every time I start the car up, in the first place??!!

I thought this was supposed to keep my attention on the road, not send me diving into the manual to figure out how the flippin' thing works!!!

See, ^this is how people are mucking up when they get cars with loads of automatic functions... Usually I'm the one trying to champion technological advancements among my 'grumpy old man' friends, but for once I totally get what they're grumping about!!

 

[Conscript]

Oh, so now I have to have a tutorial on how to use windscreen wipers, and when I do and don't have to switch them on and off or use the wash function... as well as remembering to turn the sensor sensitivity setting off and back on every time I start the car up, in the first place??!!

I thought this was supposed to keep my attention on the road, not send me diving into the manual to figure out how the flippin' thing works!!!

See, ^this is how people are mucking up when they get cars with loads of automatic functions... Usually I'm the one trying to champion technological advancements among my 'grumpy old man' friends, but for once I totally get what they're grumping about!!

So initially you seem to be criticising automatic wipers because they take away the need for people to think about what they are doing...now you're complaining because you think that they somehow require more thought?

Even though they don't. Starts raining....switch wipers from "OFF" to "AUTO". Forget about it until the rain stops, then switch them "OFF". Anyone who seriously needs to consider reaching for a manual in order to work that out shouldn't be controlling a vehicle anyway.

 

[[TW]Fox]

Oh, so now I have to have a tutorial on how to use windscreen wipers, and when I do and don't have to switch them on and off or use the wash function... as well as remembering to turn the sensor sensitivity setting off and back on every time I start the car up, in the first place??!!

I thought this was supposed to keep my attention on the road, not send me diving into the manual to figure out how the flippin' thing works!!!

See, ^this is how people are mucking up when they get cars with loads of automatic functions... Usually I'm the one trying to champion technological advancements among my 'grumpy old man' friends, but for once I totally get what they're grumping about!!

Every post you make just further highlights that you've got no idea how it works - which is fine but why have such a strong view on something you've limited experience off?

This is how I use my wipers.

a) Get in car and drive car
b) If rain begins to fall, turn wiper system on with single button press
c) Continue driving car until I reach destination

It's that simple. You don't really need to touch the sensitivity adjustment, its just there for your initial preferences.

 

[mrk]

You forgot one.

d) Turn the wiper system off.

Without d, the automatic rain sensor will not become active when you next start the car and it rains, you will have to nudge the sensitivity dial up and down, or do d.