Power/Weight Thread

saddler

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xdcx said:
You're a skinny minny (not a bad thing!) and from that split of cycling/running you are actually more focused to running I would say. Take that into equation with your weight also you are not going to push big FTP numbers doing both.... Unless you are a full time athlete!

I trained a lot with a guy who wanted so hard to be a triathlete, but worked full time as a solicitor so I eventually got the point one day when he was moaning about struggling to break 18mins for 5k when so fit and told him that he doesn't have the time or the physical capability to train for all 3. His best bet was to focus on the sport he enjoyed the most if he wanted to be competitive at any of them. He decided running was his thing, something I agree'd with, and he is running a hell of a quicker now over 5k and is competitive on local scene.... Sure he enjoyed doing all 3, but it was a proper jack of all trades situation which was enjoyable but he would never be competitive. The compromise was to focus mainly on cycling but still do swimming and cycling for fun/cross train/recovery.

Shamrock will know better than me but if you could push 3.5w/kg and run a 38min 10K in a duathlon that is likely bloody good standards is it not?

Whereas in a road race on the bike, 3.5w/kg will see you dropped swiftly and a 38min road 10k will not even see you top 50 at decent club level races. so all these things have to be taken with relevance to the people you are competing against and the specialisms they focus on versus the specific race you are targeting.
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I got into running and later cycling as a way of loosing weight. I went from 85kg down to 47kg (to low) before settling around 55kg. I'm not a naturally athletic person so doubt I could ever reach a competitive standard in any sport. I think my main challenge is to find some new realistic goals to give my training focus. It had been all about the weight loss and my speed and endurance goals had been a away of achieving that.

I probably do favour running over cycling but half my cycling mileage is commuting and I'd much rather be cycling on a hot summers day than running so I'm unlikely to ditch one over the other.
 

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Continued on from discussion started in Road Cycling thread....

Bear said:
Sorry I'm just crap at explaining myself. From my understanding, FTP isnt something to train towards, its a baseline of power that determines your zones at your given fitness level, its a rough equivalent to your lactic threshold for people that dont train in labs i.e. normal people. Its good to train and improve your threshold power but as you say, that doesn't win races if you are so inclined unless you are perhaps a TTer.

TTE is an extension to FTP, which is the point at where you fail to hold your FTP through fatigue. You use TTE to understand where your fatigue level is in time and use training plans to extend that time, I doubt many people can genuinely hold their 20min flat out FTP for an hour unless you TT a lot, so your power will probably drop off say 40mins in, so you train to make sure you can hold that power longer which improves your TTE.

Through your training you build up your power profile (strava power graph for instance) and you train specific areas that you require improvements on by working the appropriate zones that comes from your FTP. So if you want to be able to sprint well, you work to be able to maintain your maximal power output for say 20 -30s so your power graph to maxes out for 20 to 30s before dropping off. If you want to be able to improve your power so you can jump the gaps on a break away, you train your 1+ min power so you can make the jump etc. Its all metrics to to provide zones with which to profile your overall performance to show you where you need to improve for a given discipline, not that FTP or TTE is a training goal in itself.
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Bear said:
Hopefully someone more knowledgeable will come along and put me straight if I'm way off the mark :o
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You are not in any way off the mark, you are spot on. PDC and TTE and working to those is not a replacement training method, as you say, it is an extension to the traditional training based off an established FTP figure. The main point to take away and change logic wise in peoples heads is that FTP is absolutely not whatever number you can actually do/been modeled to do for 60mins. So the idea of doing 20min tests regularly and then using a calculator to get a perceived ability for 60mins is dead as that's a very one-zize-fits-all estimation that does not accommodate a riders strengths/weaknesses or training ambitions.

A few guys mentioned it all being a bit serious and harder to track. I did 100% agree on this in terms of WKO4 being expensive and very involved as is a coach to do so for you, but I think other than the cost of money & time required it is not too extensive or over the top for anyone with a power meter who is training for competitive reasoning. IT allows a far greater insight to your abilities and what abilities you need to train across the whole spectrum, rather than focusing on pushing up a number you have simply calculated from a half a perceived effort.

I didn't know he was going to do this but my coach just posted this to Facebook with a video he done as well. Gives example of the adaptions and sessions we are incorporating just now and how they have improved elements of my ability. I done this 1x60mins he speaks of in the spoiler below last Thursday and done another 1x60mins on Monday night and went 8w higher again. I'll move onto some lower time similar efforts then do another block and move onto again longer sustained efforts over an hour once I can get back outside on the good bike regularly and this will populate the PDC vastly and allow us to concentrate on very very specific areas to get me where I need to be (dunno if video will work):

https://www.facebook.com/100000117812088/videos/1698587260155185/

Coached rider Dean Cunningham is now in full swing preparation for the 2017 time trial season. Last week Dean popped down to my office on his travels and performed his last session of the extensive aerobic phase. The aim with Dean is to really light a fire in his engine and make the most of his limited training time.
Today's session was a gradual 20 minute warm up followed by a consistent 60 minute effort. This 60 minute effort focused on part of the power duration curve with needed maintenance. We knew exactly what average watts we needed for the 60 minutes to bring it up to line with our training phase focus. Dean has hit a few consistent 40 minutes efforts in this watt range and this session was interesting especially when looking at the relationship between power and heart rate. I wanted to see what heart rate did once past the 40 minute point. Will it start to de couple and drift ?
The answer was no it stayed coupled with power. Even to the point where Dean managed to pick up power in the final 10 minutes and easily power past the set target.
Once the data was uploaded we saw the power duration curve move. Not only did it improve at the targeted 60 minute point. It also pulled up the curve all the way out to 74 minutes and the curve to 32 minutes.
mFTP went up 6 watts and TTE extended by 7 minutes.
With Dean we have achieved real strength in depth in this phase and you can see from the video how powerful he is looking. Dean is racing 10 and 25 mile time trials and he has outstanding fatigue resistance over both event durations.
What excites Transition as a coaching team is the fact Dean has not touched any threshold work. He is now achieving peak powers from 30-60 minutes with a whole boat load of energy systems to cause adaptations ahead of us.
It's safe to say Dean is doing himself proud and covering all based ahead of the 2017 season.
 

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SoliD;30498108 said:
200W then you whippet? :D
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:p:p
273w for 60mins on Sat.
300w for 20mins on Weds.
Shows you the CP20 * 0.95 really is just ballpark as I reckon I could test at 310w just now for 20mins but doubt I could get any more than 275w for the full 60mins.

This is all indoors mind you so would be good to do the same outdoors and see how much these would increase.
 

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xdcx;30498115 said:
:p:p
273w for 60mins on Sat.
300w for 20mins on Weds.
Shows you the CP20 * 0.95 really is just ballpark as I reckon I could test at 310w just now for 20mins but doubt I could get any more than 275w for the full 60mins.

This is all indoors mind you so would be good to do the same outdoors and see how much these would increase.
Click to expand...

Some great numbers! You'll be flying this season, especially on the lumpy stuff. Got your aero better yet on the TT bike?
 

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SoliD;30498120 said:
Some great numbers! You'll be flying this season, especially on the lumpy stuff. Got your aero better yet on the TT bike?
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:D It's coming together nicely but definitely need transfer that onto TT bike in aero position.
Funny of you to mention, I took a wee video after fitting my new TT saddle last night and got some screenshots. I sent them to my coach for opinion but I am going to post them over in the aero thread just now so you guys can give me some help and advice please :)
 

BennyC

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Grim.

Can't imagine holding 5.5-6w/kg for 45 minutes at the end of a 3-4 hour stage, after 2-3 weeks in the saddle, on a nasty climb getting blown out your backside fending off attacks!
 

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2017 Update for me.

FTP: 273W in line with my last 20 minute FTP test. Around 3.6 w/kg (currently around 76kg).
5 min: 320W (turbo), 305W (outdoor)
1 min: 500W (turbo), 454W (outdoor)
5s power: 840W (turbo), 820W (outdoor)
Equipment: Vortex Smart turbo trainer & Powertap C1 power meter. Wahoo ELEMNT.
Source: Zwift race data & hard club/group rides.
 
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I got myself some Vector pedals.
Before I sell my old powertap, I've been trying to set it up with pedals + powertap hub running at the same time to compare. I'm using phone with ANT+ and edge500 trying to record each power meter on a separate device but they both get confused. :(
Doesnt look like it's going to happen. Any ideas?
 

Roady

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Think you need to pair them isolated away from each other.

My 810 has a fit if I try and add power source (Vortex) along with speed & cadence (GSC10). I think because the Vortex also broadcasts (junk) cadence readings. Grr! I want power from it, but not cadence!

EDIT: It doesn't display a 'list' of sensors and let me choose, just helpfully suggests 'move away from others and scan again'. :rolleyes:
 
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touch

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Username - touch
Age - 29
Height - 6ft
Weight - 80KG
FTP (60min) - 283w FTP W/KG - 3.53
CP (20min) - 298w CP W/KG - 3.725
Gear - Garmin Vector on turbo
Info - Strava link

First time with new vector pedals. L/R balance at 51/49 avg. Looks like it gets better when I push hard and wonders around a bit when spinning
 
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