Britain's decline - is money holding us at ransom?

Pawnless Endgame

Pawnless Endgame

Pawnless Endgame

Soldato
Joined
10 May 2004
Posts
13,073
Location
Sunny Stafford
I'm not really looking for a Brexit debate as the current situation pre-dates last year's referendum. We're one of the world's richest nations. More food is farmed, technologies have moved on, more things have been invented around the world. More medicine and new procedures have helped combat illnesses and emergencies. We're trying to head towards equality too. Therefore life should be getting better, but AIBU to think that it isn't for most of us?

What's the one thing that is holding us at ransom? Money! Those shiny bits of metal, sheets of paper and balances shown on computer screens.

- libraries disappearing or at best being run by volunteers
- council amenities disappearing, yet council tax rises
- hospital waiting lists getting longer
- same-day GP appointment no longer exist
- above-inflation rail fares and disgruntled staff going on strikes
- below-inflation pay rises or no pay rise at all
- larger classroom sizes and teacher strikes
- public transport getting cut affecting the isolated and disabled
- able-bodied / drivers being punished too for fuel / insurance increases
- prison officers being beaten up by inmates due to fewer staff numbers
- banks closing I guess so that the bosses can keep their £8m/year wages
- similar to bankers, record label bosses are killing the clubbing / gig scene due to extortionate DJ and band costs

Then there's university. The previous academic generation got given grants. My dad, when graduated, was 1 in 20 and thus was sought after and got relevant jobs in his field. This generation had to pay tuition fees and build up loans. Plus, 1 in 2 people nowadays are graduates, so we are as common as muck, undesirables, who end up in 6th form type jobs or as admins.

All of this, again, because of those shiny bits of metal, and yet I think there is enough people, resources and food in principle to keep us all on an even keel. I know this doesn't affect some of the members here as it's a fairly conservative forum. It's really geared towards the average and less well off on here (a sizely chunk of the UK) and what do you think of this? I think a lot of us are being penalised because of money.
 
If money was eliminated though something would take its very place within hours/days as a form of currency is how people are hardwired to work. Its a sad life as i wish we lived in a world were we were equals, favors was repaid with favors and gentleman's agreements were taken as seriously as they once was instead of now needing your entire life checked just for a credit card etc

I don't think the problems would change no matter what we did with money
 
IMO rent is yet again one of the factors here - there is a big issue around where I live at the moment because loads of the retail unit landlords are massively increasing the rent come renewal at the same time as long term roadworks have significantly impacted those businesses so many are going under or facing going under :s

Same for things like libraries, banks and some council services where either they are facing rent increases or the premises could be generating more rent from other types of usage, etc. I know our local council has, probably short sightedly, sold off a fair few buildings they had on their books for their rent potential to make some extra cash.

I'd agree that money is fast becoming a liability though in this country as we've moved towards a service industry and away from the old manufacturing and production lead country we used to be.
 
More natural resources than money TBH. What do we have, a trickle of oil left and a few barrow loads of coal, we have very little minerals, maybe some tin and a couple of other metals in tiny amounts. That's why the empire was so strong, we could build ships and trade(or take) resources from other countries at ease. We import around 60% of food and around 95% of timber for example. We have to import everything, including iron. So unless we want to go back to living in mud huts or have WW2 style rationing then we have to find ways of trading with other countries. Money doesn't necessarily mean much to third world counties(we trade with money etc) as their currencies are so devalued and governments so corrupt, so we have less and less to trade with. Now that countries like India and China are growing in desire to be powerful, educated and self sufficient it really leaves us with no option. I believe we export our military as a business nowadays for example. What do we have to export or trade with, not so much in terms of real physical assets, just advisors and more advisors.
 
jsmoke said:
More natural resources than money TBH. What do we have, a trickle of oil left and a few barrow loads of coal, we have very little minerals, maybe some tin and a couple of other metals in tiny amounts. That's why the empire was so strong, we could build ships and trade(or take) resources from other countries at ease. We import around 60% of food and around 95% of timber for example. We have to import everything, including iron. So unless we want to go back to living in mud huts or have WW2 style rationing then we have to find ways of trading with other countries. Money doesn't necessarily mean much to third world counties(we trade with money etc) as their currencies are so devalued and governments so corrupt, so we have less and less to trade with. Now that countries like India and China are growing in desire to be powerful, educated and self sufficient it really leaves us with no option. I believe we export our military as a business nowadays for example. What do we have to export or trade with, not so much in terms of real physical assets, just advisors and more advisors.
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As an aside I think latest oil estimates are that we have a lot more than previously thought - however its not exactly a straight forward story in the global oil markets at the moment and not a good time for us to be selling it in volume really. We still have a lot of expertise in various engineering areas that most countries can't match - in a lot of industry and agriculture, etc. our engines, pumps, etc. are still some of if not the best options out there. We would have to get back to doing what we used to do so well in terms of breaking new ground in sciences, design and engineering and export the results.
 
Also, some councils are completely incompetent or corrupt - mine in Wokingham is genuinely, consistently atrocious. People don't realise how important local elections are.
 
Your 2nd sentence isn't particularly accurate and therefore makes a lot of the question invalid. :)

Politicians mislead the general public and use our overall GDP rank as a rank of prosperity. Where they should be using GDP per Capita. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita

In the ranks of Developed Countries we are not close to the richest nations. We are ranked about 22nd - 27th overall which puts us in the middle of the list of Developed Countries.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country#Gallup_median_household_and_per-capita_income

And given the recent pound falls that would see us drop even more down the list.

So yeah, we are not that rich. We just happen to have a larger population than the majority of developed countries, so our total GDP is high. China is number 2 in term of GDP but you wouldn't say the average Chinese person is richer than us. But they way Politicians compare us with counties way richer than us is damn right insulting, but average simple Joe on the street laps it up.

As for the university question, when it was free when under 20% of the population attended, it was the elite. Now I believe is over 40% and those extra places have to paid for. Unfortunately there hasn't been a doubling of high paid jobs to pay for it via increase income tax. So if you want free uni, cut the number to 20% and you can have it. :P

Though technically the fees are just a tax as you only pay it back if you earn enough, it's actually a good deal if you get a decent job out of it, or a **** one. Only the average wage get a poor-ish deal.
 
We have been in decline for generations, ever since losing our empire from WW2. In an effort to keep up living standards we have borrowed money as a nation and are now having to pay it back.

This is why we have to cut the deficit; if we don't then our children's generation will have it even harder.
 
I heard recently on some news outlet public spending, basically debt is keeping the economy afloat, the less disposable income people have the more this country turns into a sinking ship.. Affordable housing plays a big part in this service industry economy..Until they work out how to balance the books then the current Gov will hold the things the op talks about back..

Keeping the pound low I guess has the upside of increasing exports, bringing money flowing our way, making it more desirable to bring back industry everyone would love to have back..

Swings and roundabouts.
 
Hades said:
We have been in decline for generations, ever since losing our empire from WW2. In an effort to keep up living standards we have borrowed money as a nation and are now having to pay it back.

This is why we have to cut the deficit; if we don't then our children's generation will have it even harder.
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Regardless what they say, they do not care about future generations. They don't even care what happens to the ones right now.
 
I think the underlying issue is distribution of money rather than money per se. We have a social and economic system based on the assumption that 100% employment is possible, that everyone capable of working could work full time and earn a living from it. That's a false assumption. The days when a huge bulk of people were needed to do the work that is required are gone. We don't need masses of peasants to farm the fields any more. We don't need masses of factory workers to manufacture the goods any more. We don't need masses of dock workers and transport workers to move stuff around any more. We don't need masses of clerks to make the administration of the country possible any more. The most basic assumption of our society and economy is now completely wrong and can't form the basis of a functional society.

Then there's the rapid rise of globalism, which of course favours transnational companies first, cheap countries second and people hardly at all and which ties in with the massive improvement in technology and infrastructure. Why manufacture clothes in the UK, for example, when technology and hugely unequal distribution of money makes it cheaper for companies to manufacture clothes in Bangladesh and ship them to the UK? Bangladesh gains a bit, the UK loses more, the companies gain overall.

We need to adapt society to how things are rather than how they used to be. That will happen. The question is how it will happen.

Edrof said:
Also, some councils are completely incompetent or corrupt - mine in Wokingham is genuinely, consistently atrocious. People don't realise how important local elections are.
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I have joked in the past that I was going to stand for local elections with the promise that I would waste tax money on strippers and beer and that I'd probably be elected because people would think that was less bad than the usual wastage.
 
Bingo!

All down to inequality and the distribution of wealth. Since the financial crisis (or the 1980s depending on your perspective) its mostly already wealthy people that have gotten richer.

All of the countries with higher GDP per capita are those were the wealth is more evenly distributed amongst the population.
 
Who knows but eventually we're going to need some kind of universal basic services (not income).

I don't think we'll see the kind of AI that'll take over the workforce in my lifetime but when we do there's going to be very few people in a position where their man hours are of benefit.
 
I think the crash of 08 really just hammered home the fact that we are living in a globalised world. Jobs that you thought were safe for life are going, through outsourcing, automation and mass immigration of both skilled and unskilled labour. Added to which we have ever restrictive regulation as well as losing competitiveness through technology transfer. As borders are removed you're becoming an even smaller cog in an ever larger world.

Your relative wealth is the stuff of people's dreams so it's going to be a long long way down before we're equal. Never in history has everyone been "rich", but whereas before it was localised, now it's global.

Enjoy the way down.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Who knows but eventually we're going to need some kind of universal basic services (not income).

I don't think we'll see the kind of AI that'll take over the workforce in my lifetime but when we do there's going to be very few people in a position where their man hours are of benefit.
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It won't need AI. Automation can be taken to significant levels without AI and it's not just obvious automation such as driverless vehicles. Factories, container shipping, payroll processing, warehouse stock control, etc, etc.

It won't need to get to very few people employed before it will require changes to society. That requirement will come long before employment reaches 1% or even 50%.
 
Britain's golden age came about based on four strong pillars; nation, family, property and religion. Each one has been, or is in the process of being torn down by globalists. If we don't change course we'll end up being part of the third world, with a handful of very wealthy billionaires controlling the country and everyone else paying them rent.
 
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