Ban on Tenant Letting Fees to go Ahead

FoxEye · 21 Jun 2017 at 23:45

LeMson said:
Where do you suggest we move?

Depends what you're after...

Plenty of countries with higher quality of life; cheaper housing; better work/life balance; all of the above.

Over the years, the UK has consistently been ranked as one of the worst places to live in Europe, in terms of quality of life.

LeMson · 21 Jun 2017 at 23:47

I was thinking republic of ireland, come on some examples dude :-)

FoxEye · 21 Jun 2017 at 23:50

LeMson said:
I was thinking republic of ireland, come on some examples dude

Here's an example: most of Europe

FoxEye · 22 Jun 2017 at 00:06

Moses said:
Where have you lived?

Cornwall, Wales. However thanks to this here internet we have, it's possible to talk to people, including ex-pats, family and friends, all over the world

Many people I know have left/are planning to leave, and they don't come back, for the most part.

Of those who have lived in places like: Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Finland, Greece (etc), none of them complain how much better life in the UK was

Just the opposite.

This isn't some crackpot theory. You can spend five minutes Googling and realise that the UK isn't the best place to live, ever. It kind of sucks in many regards!

e: I think the main point is that the UK appears to very much be on a downward trajectory. In terms of fairness/equality, quality of life, citizen's rights, housing, disposable income, etc...

Whilst other countries, European and further afield, are being a lot more progressive than we are. The UK seems determined to re-created the Victorian era, as far as I can tell.

e2: Like this...
http://www.theweek.co.uk/66313/poverty-blamed-for-return-of-victorian-era-diseases

More depressing reading for you...
https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8371

dowie · 22 Jun 2017 at 00:46

FoxEye said:
Of those who have lived in places like: Australia, New Zealand, Canada, Finland, Greece (etc), none of them complain how much better life in the UK was Just the opposite.

bit of a selection bias there - if you asked the same of people who had moved back to the UK, or simply moved to the UK from overseas you might have different answers - I know quite a few Greek people in London, they're no doubt taking a hit on the weather but their career prospects and income are much better here

(though yes I could see how quality of life can be very good in those first three at least)

FoxEye · 22 Jun 2017 at 01:04

Moses said:
IMO it boils down to the first paragraph. So eg. If you're poor in the U.K. it sucks... but if you're poor in NZ it sucks, if you're poor in Aus it sucks, etc. Any country will be rubbish with no money, and almost any country can be great with money. So it depends if your career options are dramatically improved through emigration.

Accepting most of your points, it is in my mind a lot to do with the direction the UK is travelling in. Which for me is not a good one.

That IFS article I linked... it shows that increasingly, "poor" families have at least one person working (and yet still poor). It shows that families where *both* parents work are increasingly dependent on state aid to top up their income.

It showed that wages for most have not increased in 7 years. It spoke of the lowest paid working more hours to make ends meet.

This country is heading to some epic levels of inequality and worker exploitation. Outside of the EU's protective regulatory sphere, and May's desire to have the UK turn into a tax haven for the global mega-corps, I can only see conditions for most of us in the UK getting worse.

This is why I mentioned at the beginning that I expect more people to leave the UK in future. And Brexit has a worrying potential to make things a lot, lot worse if we fail to reach a deal with the EU (likely given it needs to be unanimously agreed, and some EU countries have reasons for wanting to scupper it).

The UK is becoming a country of low-wages, high living costs, insecurity, poverty, food banks... you name it. That's where I see us heading.

Like you said, I'm sure it's great at the top. Most of us aren't there.

dowie · 22 Jun 2017 at 01:37

Moses said:
The poor people who are going to be hit by increasing inequality aren't the sort of people who can up sticks and migrate. Especially those with kids.

indeed, the people most likely to move tend to be either skilled professionals or relatively well off pensioners moving to Spain

poorer people tend to stay in the same towns they grew up in, this an issue in itself in the UK when it comes to deprived areas, plenty of British people won't even move internally to look for work...

muon · 22 Jun 2017 at 02:19

I love the comments that rent will rise. Even if they rise exactly by the fees lost, the tenant is no worse off. In fact they are better off because of lower upfront costs. All tenants I've known would prefer to have any fees added onto rent making it easy to compare prices.

Secondly this will finally force landlords to find estate agents who don't charge very high fees.

Previously an estate agent enticed landlords with very low fees only to charge tenants (who have little choice as they can't change estate agents) very high fees.

Now landlords will actually shop around reducing profits for estate agents. Note that when this was originally announced, the share prices of estate agents tanked. That doesn't happen if profits remain the same. Tenancy fees (landlords + tenants combined) will fall.

http://www.cityam.com/254216/foxtons-share-price-plummets-chancellor-ditches-letting

Tefal · 22 Jun 2017 at 03:16

I think what will happen is th3 cost of the fees will be dropped.

As a landlord can easily find another agent

413x · 22 Jun 2017 at 07:12

Pointless. Only way to tackle rising rent is to take more drastic action. Personally I think the more property you own the more tax you should pay until it is barely profitable.

Bear · 22 Jun 2017 at 07:24

dowie said:
poorer people tend to stay in the same towns they grew up in, this an issue in itself in the UK when it comes to deprived areas, plenty of British people won't even move internally to look for work...

Nope, they would rather sit on their backsides and whine about how hard life is here, yet people come from the other side of the planet to come for the opportunities available here. Hell people are risking dieing crossing the sea in knackered boats to get a better life yet some people here dont want to move a 100 miles in the same country to better their lot, its a wonder why they never succeed with that sort of drive.

Talk of moving country for a better life when they cant even be bothered to move in the same country for better job prospects is laughable.

Scam · 22 Jun 2017 at 08:01

413x said:
Pointless. Only way to tackle rising rent is to take more drastic action. Personally I think the more property you own the more tax you should pay until it is barely profitable.

It's not pointless - it's one of many steps that need to be taken to tackle rising rent and house prices. However I agree more needs to be done. We still give people a council tax discount on their second home for example. Wwwhhhyyyy?! :mad:

MBennett · 22 Jun 2017 at 08:26

muon said:
I love the comments that rent will rise. Even if they rise exactly by the fees lost, the tenant is no worse off. In fact they are better off because of lower upfront costs. All tenants I've known would prefer to have any fees added onto rent making it easy to compare prices.

Secondly this will finally force landlords to find estate agents who don't charge very high fees.

Previously an estate agent enticed landlords with very low fees only to charge tenants (who have little choice as they can't change estate agents) very high fees.

Now landlords will actually shop around reducing profits for estate agents. Note that when this was originally announced, the share prices of estate agents tanked. That doesn't happen if profits remain the same. Tenancy fees (landlords + tenants combined) will fall.

http://www.cityam.com/254216/foxtons-share-price-plummets-chancellor-ditches-letting

Rents will not rise, they are set at what the market will take and if anything with the squeeze on wages I actually expect them to keep falling. Remember last year when the section 24 proposals came about and the landlords basically said they would just raise rents in anticipation to offset their losses? Yeah well that didn't seem to work for them too well:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2...-fall-sharply-as-monthly-bill-drops-across-uk

It will actually be interesting to see what estate agents do now, they might actually have to sell some houses to survive as they just can't leech off of tennants anymore. I expect agents to start valuing houses lower in order to try and get some sales/commission, which will in turn help drive house prices lower in itself. Either that all they are just going to go bust. If you check the land registry figures you will see that sales volumes have plummeted to 2007 levels so they have a challenge on their hands.

Shoza · 22 Jun 2017 at 08:59

We could definitely have fewer estate & letting agencies - far too many for the market.

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 22 Jun 2017 at 09:25

The association of letting agents says 4000 job losses, so assuming no change in properties being let thats quite a lot of people. Probably a vast overreaction but I bet there will be some.

That would make you think they expect to have to drop fees, and rightly so, thats the issue, the amount being charged has become frankly daft is some scenarios.

I do think as I mentioned before that lettings agencies are ripe for a purple bricks type player to come along.

StriderX · 22 Jun 2017 at 09:50

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior said:
The association of letting agents says 4000 job losses, so assuming no change in properties being let thats quite a lot of people. Probably a vast overreaction but I bet there will be some.

That would make you think they expect to have to drop fees, and rightly so, thats the issue, the amount being charged has become frankly daft is some scenarios.

I do think as I mentioned before that lettings agencies are ripe for a purple bricks type player to come along.

Good, Estate agents could do with culling the abject ***** who think their the best salesmen to ever live.

FoxEye · 22 Jun 2017 at 09:54

StriderX said:
Good, Estate agents could do with culling the abject ***** who think their the best salesmen to ever live.

In a lot of small towns in Cornwall, the high street (what's left of it) is purely comprised of gambling shops, charity shops, solicitors firms, and estate agents. To that point where you can have three of either right next to each other. Fewer estate agents certainly couldn't hurt

Mercenary Keyboard Warrior · 22 Jun 2017 at 10:04

StriderX said:
Good, Estate agents could do with culling the abject ***** who think their the best salesmen to ever live.

Well unless they are just sitting there doing nothing it could be interesting to see what changes if they do loose heads
If agents start to shut down then it restricts choice which won't help with the hope of competition forcing down fees

moogle · 22 Jun 2017 at 10:22

Scam said:
They've had the conversation every year when he's put the rent up but at the end of the day they would lose so much more by moving -- due to having to pay another deposit, moving costs and of course a huge amount of letting agents fees. Take the fees away and it makes moving a lot more palatable, especially if deposits are capped as promised.

Is the deposit not returned to you or used to pay your rent?

Tefal · 22 Jun 2017 at 10:54

FoxEye said:
In a lot of small towns in Cornwall, the high street (what's left of it) is purely comprised of gambling shops, charity shops, solicitors firms, and estate agents. To that point where you can have three of either right next to each other. Fewer estate agents certainly couldn't hurt

So you're saying one of the few sources of employment in your area dussapearibg couldn't hurt?