Are gay folks getting too much attention?

[Tefal]

It simply isn't true that the only two possibilities are pride or shame. That is an obviously false dichotomy.

your the one narrowimng it doiwn to such

 

[flea-rider]

When it comes to pride I can see both sides of it.

There are some who see it as unnecessary in this day and age and others who feel that it is due to on going homophobia. I don't think you could ever fully wipe out homophobia some people just have a problem with things that they see as different and use it as an excuse to start trouble which is unfortunate.

I have been to a couple with my now ex boyfriend and it was one of the few places we felt we could hold hands and be ourselves While being sure no-one would have an issue with it.

Some people may see it as a big fuss over nothing but going to experience an event such as pride and feeling fine with being open about who you are after hiding it for some time is indescribable.

lol you want to move to blackpool or one of the other citys like Brighton .. you can hold hands or do what ever ya want ..
it's so strange in this day and age that people have a judgment on anything .. as long as your not hurting anyone and the other party agrees with what you want .. **** it ....
now wheres my whip and gimp suit ..

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

Chris Morris: If this were really happening, what would you think?

Sir Hugh Maharggs: Homosexuals can't swim, they attract enemy radar, they attract sharks, they insist on being placed at "the captain's table", they get up late, they nudge people whilst they're shooting. They muck about. Imagine... the fear... of knowing you have a gay man on board a boat, when you retire at night you think to yourself "God... will I wake up and find everybody dead?" You can't run a ship like that.

This is the news!

 

[Hyburnate]

When it comes to pride I can see both sides of it.

There are some who see it as unnecessary in this day and age and others who feel that it is due to on going homophobia. I don't think you could ever fully wipe out homophobia some people just have a problem with things that they see as different and use it as an excuse to start trouble which is unfortunate.

I have been to a couple with my now ex boyfriend and it was one of the few places we felt we could hold hands and be ourselves While being sure no-one would have an issue with it.

Some people may see it as a big fuss over nothing but going to experience an event such as pride and feeling fine with being open about who you are after hiding it for some time is indescribable.

lol you want to move to blackpool or one of the other citys like Brighton .. you can hold hands or do what ever ya want ..
it's so strange in this day and age that people have a judgment on anything .. as long as your not hurting anyone and the other party agrees with what you want .. **** it ....
now wheres my whip and gimp suit ..

This is actually a fair point. Me and my now ex-boyfriend actually got quite a bit of hate by some passerby once simply for holding hands, right near his house which made not only he feel unsafe in his own neighbourhood but us feel unsafe as a couple regardless of location.

 

[Dis86]

When it comes to pride I can see both sides of it.

There are some who see it as unnecessary in this day and age and others who feel that it is due to on going homophobia. I don't think you could ever fully wipe out homophobia some people just have a problem with things that they see as different and use it as an excuse to start trouble which is unfortunate.

I have been to a couple with my now ex boyfriend and it was one of the few places we felt we could hold hands and be ourselves While being sure no-one would have an issue with it.

Some people may see it as a big fuss over nothing but going to experience an event such as pride and feeling fine with being open about who you are after hiding it for some time is indescribable.

I've honestly never witnessed a single incidence of it here in the north east. The town I grew up in is as backwards and full of morons as can be yet I quite often see gay and lesbian couples on the beach holding hands, cuddling up and kissing.
Although I generally find it's quite curious like that. We have very few black or Asian people around and yet again there's no racism. Maybe people here are just rather accepting or possibly because with being a historic port we quite often had and have sailors from all over the world.

Or too stupid to try anything!

 

[sp@rkles]

I've honestly never witnessed a single incidence of it here in the north east. The town I grew up in is as backwards and full of morons as can be yet I quite often see gay and lesbian couples on the beach holding hands, cuddling up and kissing.
Although I generally find it's quite curious like that. We have very few black or Asian people around and yet again there's no racism. Maybe people here are just rather accepting or possibly because with being a historic port we quite often had and have sailors from all over the world.

Or too stupid to try anything!

To say that where I live is a small town things were usually ok but we always felt a little on edge. Most of the people knew us and just took us for who we are but we did have a couple of occasions where we got funny looks.

The worst One was when we were walking back one night and we ended up in a scrap with some of the local idiots who started shouting abuse at us but luckily it wasn't anything too serious.

There was one time when a couple of out of town guys started to have a go at us in the pub we usually go to. We weren't doing anything over the top but one of them noticed I had a bit of a camp voice and decided to start having a go. A couple of people in the pub overhead what was going and asked them to leave which nearly ended in a pub wide brawl.

Although these incidents are rare they do happen and when they do make you feel like your not as safe and you can't be as open which is why we stopped it.

 

[Dis86]

To say that where I live is a small town things were usually ok but we always felt a little on edge. Most of the people knew us and just took us for who we are but we did have a couple of occasions where we got funny looks.

The worst One was when we were walking back one night and we ended up in a scrap with some of the local idiots who started shouting abuse at us but luckily it wasn't anything too serious.

There was one time when a couple of out of town guys started to have a go at us in the pub we usually go to. We weren't doing anything over the top but one of them noticed I had a bit of a camp voice and decided to start having a go. A couple of people in the pub overhead what was going and asked them to leave which nearly ended in a pub wide brawl.

Although these incidents are rare they do happen and when they do make you feel like your not as safe and you can't be as open which is why we stopped it.

From what you be described there it's a case of morons gonna moron. They look for any excuse.
I've literally had people start on me because of my accent. Muppets.

 

[asim18]

All this gay pride stuff and instructing people to be the gayest they can be, simply fuels homophobia and societal division.

Anyone who "stands out" will get noticed whether you like man's anus or not, therefore you get higher chance of getting attacked simply for being "different" - and at the same time society is always telling gays how to be more different and new ways to appear gayer and flaunt and stand out and exhibit themselves in various ways.

The vast majority of homophobic attacks don't actually happen simply because the person likes other men in a private bedroom where your sexuality belongs. No one is a mind reader no one has secret webcams in a gay person's bedroom. Some gays want to be be as gay as possible and that's what sparks homophobia.

I know many gays who are just normal people and they've never had any issues with homophobia. The way media portrays gays is literally ridiculous. David Walliams is a complete weirdo, that "only gay in the village guy" is even weirder.

 

[sp@rkles]

From what you be described there it's a case of morons gonna moron. They look for any excuse.
I've literally had people start on me because of my accent. Muppets.

Yeah I fully agree it was idiots being idiots I suppose some people are just like that, unfortunately because they see you as different you can become a bit of an easy target for them

I know that most people are fine with it I think you would have to have something seriously wrong with you to deliberately start an altercation over something that's so minor and has no effect on you.

I suppose that's why events like pride are still running I know full well that things such as racism and homophobia will never go away but events like pride where you can go be yourself and know that things like this won't happen really help.

 

[[FnG]magnolia]

All this gay pride stuff and instructing people to be the gayest they can be, simply fuels homophobia and societal division.

Anyone who "stands out" will get noticed whether you like man's anus or not, therefore you get higher chance of getting attacked simply for being "different" - and at the same time society is always telling gays how to be more different and new ways to appear gayer and flaunt and stand out and exhibit themselves in various ways.

The vast majority of homophobic attacks don't actually happen simply because the person likes other men in a private bedroom where your sexuality belongs. No one is a mind reader no one has secret webcams in a gay person's bedroom. Some gays want to be be as gay as possible and that's what sparks homophobia.

I know many gays who are just normal people and they've never had any issues with homophobia. The way media portrays gays is literally ridiculous. David Walliams is a complete weirdo, that "only gay in the village guy" is even weirder.

For new or newer posters, asim18 has views which he shares and has, apparently, thought through to completion. You can fill in the gaps

 

[sp@rkles]

All this gay pride stuff and instructing people to be the gayest they can be, simply fuels homophobia and societal division.

Anyone who "stands out" will get noticed whether you like man's anus or not, therefore you get higher chance of getting attacked simply for being "different" - and at the same time society is always telling gays how to be more different and new ways to appear gayer and flaunt and stand out and exhibit themselves in various ways.

The vast majority of homophobic attacks don't actually happen simply because the person likes other men in a private bedroom where your sexuality belongs. No one is a mind reader no one has secret webcams in a gay person's bedroom. Some gays want to be be as gay as possible and that's what sparks homophobia.

I know many gays who are just normal people and they've never had any issues with homophobia. The way media portrays gays is literally ridiculous. David Walliams is a complete weirdo, that "only gay in the village guy" is even weirder.

I will fully agree the way gay people are portrayed in the media is usually way over the top, if you asked someone who didn't know any gay guys to describe one based on the media it would probably be someone like Louie Spence. But could you please elaborate on how society is telling gay people how to be even more gayer?

 

[asim18]

But could you please elaborate on how society is telling gay people how to be even more gayer?

That part is not limited to homosex, everything is over-sexualised these days whether it's straight or not, even heterosex is in your face everywhere you look.

I've just seen those banned posters, what were they thinking. They've literally synonimised the word "gay" with "crap", "****", or whatever negative thing, etc.

Good grief.

 

[Angilion]

your the one narrowimng it doiwn to such

Nonsense. I've been consistently stating the opposite. You specifically stated that being proud of being in a biological group was the alternative to being ashamed of it. I've been saying the opposite - that being born into a biological group is, like most things, neutral in this context.

You are pretending that I've been writing what you are writing. That's dishonest of you at best.

Are you aware that there is anything other than pride or shame? Do you really think that only those two extremes exist, that there is no possibility of any more neutral position? Are you, for example, either proud or ashamed of the colour of your hair, the number of toes you have or a million other things?

 

[Angilion]

Mate, I think you are projecting or something. I have a heap of gay friends, and none of them think their sexuality is better than someone elses, especially given the tolerance of all sexualities (homo and hetero aren't the only ones remember).

How many of them are proud of having a "right" sexuality? I've said nothing about all people who have any particular sexuality. I have, every time, specified people who are proud of having what they consider to be a "right" sexuality.

Projecting what, exactly? Do you think I secretly think being bisexual is better than being not bisexual? Did you assume I'm heterosexual?

Yes, there are spiteful sorts that hate on 'breeders', but there are infinitely more violent homophobes out there.

Obvously not, since that would require an infinite number of violent people who have an extreme irrational fear of either homosexual people or things that are the same. There aren't an infinite number of people, let alone an infinite number of people like that.

Assuming you meant that there are many more people irrationally prejudiced against homosexuals than people irrationally prejudiced against heterosexuals...true, but irrelevant.

It's almost like you want 'pride' to mean something else so you can bang your weird conspiracy drum.

How on earth can you claim that something done so extremely obviously is a conspiracy? That makes no sense - for a conspiracy to exist there has to be at least an attempt at secrecy.

I think being proud of being in a biological group is being proud of being in a biological group. It's other people who are claiming that it means something completely different but only for whichever biological group identity and pride is fashionable at the time.

 

[sp@rkles]

That part is not limited to homosex, everything is over-sexualised these days whether it's straight or not, even heterosex is in your face everywhere you look.

I've just seen those banned posters, what were they thinking. They've literally synonimised the word "gay" with "crap", "****", or whatever negative thing, etc.

Good grief.

ok, it's just that being gay i have never felt society has ever actively told me that i should be "gayer" than i already am, people have encouraged me to just be myself and not worry about what other people might think. i never felt society said that "i should be gayest that i can be" or i could how be "even more different" and that "i should find new ways to appear gayer". (as you said in your previous post)

 

[Angilion]

When it comes to pride I can see both sides of it.

There are some who see it as unnecessary in this day and age and others who feel that it is due to on going homophobia. I don't think you could ever fully wipe out homophobia some people just have a problem with things that they see as different and use it as an excuse to start trouble which is unfortunate. [..]

I agree, which is part of the reason why I think vehemently portraying it as more different, as more a thing that defines a person and is their identity and as something for which people should be proud of having a "right" group identity ("right" being whatever is fashionable at the time, as usual) is a bad approach.

I think it is possible to wipe out irrational prejudices on the basis of sexuality, but in order to do so it would be necessary to make it seen as unimportant differences. People who "just have a problem with things that they see as different and use it as an excuse to start trouble" don't use, for example, shoe size for that purpose. That's still a difference, but it's treated (here and now, anyway) as an unimportant difference.

 

[krooton]

How many of them are proud of having a "right" sexuality? I've said nothing about all people who have any particular sexuality. I have, every time, specified people who are proud of having what they consider to be a "right" sexuality.

Projecting what, exactly? Do you think I secretly think being bisexual is better than being not bisexual? Did you assume I'm heterosexual?



Obvously not, since that would require an infinite number of violent people who have an extreme irrational fear of either homosexual people or things that are the same. There aren't an infinite number of people, let alone an infinite number of people like that.

Assuming you meant that there are many more people irrationally prejudiced against homosexuals than people irrationally prejudiced against heterosexuals...true, but irrelevant.



How on earth can you claim that something done so extremely obviously is a conspiracy? That makes no sense - for a conspiracy to exist there has to be at least an attempt at secrecy.

I think being proud of being in a biological group is being proud of being in a biological group. It's other people who are claiming that it means something completely different but only for whichever biological group identity and pride is fashionable at the time.

Ahh, ok, that makes more sense, I think I kinda see how your brain works, nvm.

 

[FortuitousFluke]

Anyone who "stands out" will get noticed whether you like man's anus or not, therefore you get higher chance of getting attacked simply for being "different" - and at the same time society is always telling gays how to be more different and new ways to appear gayer and flaunt and stand out and exhibit themselves in various ways.

The vast majority of homophobic attacks don't actually happen simply because the person likes other men in a private bedroom where your sexuality belongs. No one is a mind reader no one has secret webcams in a gay person's bedroom. Some gays want to be be as gay as possible and that's what sparks homophobia.

I know many gays who are just normal people and they've never had any issues with homophobia. The way media portrays gays is literally ridiculous. David Walliams is a complete weirdo, that "only gay in the village guy" is even weirder.

Camp gays are normal people too. Your argument effectively boils down to the main cause of homophobia being gay people rubbing it in societies face. I'm not sure you meant it this way but the section I've quoted above almost feels like an apology for homophobia, effectively saying if gay people just had sex with other men in the privacy of their own home, didn't tell people about it, and didn't engage in gay culture then it wouldn't be a problem would it?

At the end of the day a person has the right to act in any way they see fit, if a person finds campy OTT behaviour annoying then that person shouldn't hang out with campy OTT people, but that's not a symptom of homosexuality, that's just not like certain overt behaviour. It's also not a reason to engage in homophobia.

I think it's too easy to conflate homosexuality with simply wanting to have sex with members of the same sex. In reality it's a lot more than that, it's about the wider aspects of relationships being applied in a same sex manner, so love, companionship, building a home, having a family, moving forward with life but with a same sex partner. And for some people it's about gay culture, which can be very loud and out there, but that's likely a response to years of persecution and the need to live their lives behind closed doors in the way you've already described.

Ultimately that's why I don't have a problem with the concept of pride, it's not pride because gay people are superior, it's pride because society is no longer forcing them to be ashamed, and it's pride in themselves, and recognition that their sexuality and associated culture is part of who they are, and that they like and are proud of who they are. This backlash against pride does feel a bit like another facet of the race to the bottom in society, the need to identify any purely positive thing experienced by one person as a negative reflection on another, just be happy, we're all different and we're all brilliant in our own ways.

For the record I'm straight, and I feel a bit dodgy speaking for a subsection of society to which I don't belong but this is just my take on it.

 

[robgmun]

I know many gays who are just normal people and they've never had any issues with homophobia. The way media portrays gays is literally ridiculous. David Walliams is a complete weirdo, that "only gay in the village guy" is even weirder.

David Walliams is an odd one, he acts like the gayest man around but had a wife and kid. Of course he maybe bi-sexual but none of that is confirmed and i agree what he does is essentially a modern form of black-face. i'm frankly surprised that the PC brigade hasn't been all over him for it.

 

[dalehitchy1]

I think what Asim said is wrong. 'normal' gays do receive homophobia.

Me and my husband dont fit the stereotype at all. We don't go out clubbing, never go to gay bars, we not into what is considered gay music (Madonna, Britney gaga or whoever is considered the icon these days), never dressed up in drag... In fact we hang around with one of my mates who's into dance an musical theatre.... He's straight and always gets mistaken for the one being gay.

Anyway... I would say we don't act effeminate in any way and yet the only time we have been abused wad just for the sake of holding hands.

I don't like the stereotype of effeminate gays anyway. Some are the the most physically and mentally strong I know. It was a lot of the effeminate people that fought for our rights.