Poll: Delivery Driver (Hermes) Entered House - POLL ADDED

  • Thread starter Thread starter kai
  • Start date Start date

Do you lock your outside doors in the day when at home? (not if yale locks or similar)

  • Yes

  • No

Results are only viewable after voting.
Efour said:
Could have been a terrorist or foreigner.[/QUOTE

I thought all terrorists were foreigners? and aren't all foreigners terrorists too? At least that seems to be a popular theory in GD.


Reading this thread reminds me of Englishmen and castles for some reason:confused:
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Nasher said:
Walking on someones driveway to deliver things/knock on the door is an implied right of access. But not inside buildings, that is tresspassing.

But never leave external doors unlocked. It's not like the old days where the locals all knew each other, watched out for each other, and crime was rare. There are people who actively walk around checking for unlocked doors these days, robbing whatever they can grab :/
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You are implying a strict definition where there isn't one. What about the front gate? What about having to enter where a postboxes are inside?

In the OPs case I'm certain a judge would say they acted reasonably in order to deliver something the OP wanted delivered.

Also Trespass doesn't suddenly give you the right to attack someone. Especially if they have an implied right of access and it isn't actually tresspass.
 
The other day, my neighbour had dropped one of their baby's baby grows on the courtyard we share which i noticed as i went outside briefly (and it was just about to rain). I opened their porch door and put it inside, closed the door and walked away.

Am I a monster?
 
antijoke said:
You're the one with the log wedged up your ass, an unlocked door is not an invitation for the driver to enter the house.
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No, you're just outright weird. Lock your goddamn door if you don't want people opening it for whatever reason. Why do you leave your door unlocked? Do you have an actual answer other than 'just cos innit'?

Last I checked, you invalidate your home insurance if you let a burglar waltz in because you didn't lock up properly. That is entirely on you. For the rest of us normal folk, we'll let the delivery drivers do their job.
 
The locking or unlocking of the door is irrelevant anyway. The postal service has been given permission to safely deliver the parcel by entering private property. If you leave the door unlocked you've just made it easier for them (and burglars who presumably you haven't given permission). I literally don't see what they have done wrong as they have safely delivered the parcel at the first opportunity, i.e. just inside the door.

What if it is a business premises and they walk in as I would expect them to do?
 
muon said:
The locking or unlocking of the door is irrelevant anyway. The postal service has been given permission to safely deliver the parcel by entering private property. If you leave the door unlocked you've just made it easier for them (and burglars who presumably you haven't given permission). I literally don't see what they have done wrong as they have safely delivered the parcel at the first opportunity, i.e. just inside the door.
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People are morons and too lazy to lock their doors then complain when people use said doors to do their jobs. Classic OcUK. :D
 
adolf hamster said:
the public portions of business premises during opening hours and a private residence are 2 different things and you know it.
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I know what? Implied permission to enter private property is exactly that. Private business (most of which have no public area) or residence.

Anyone entering without impicit/explicit permission to enter is trespassing. If they have permission then it is okay. Couriers have implied access.
 
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muon said:
I know what? Implied permission to enter private property is exactly that. Private business (most of which have no public area) or residence.

Anyone entering without impicit/explicit permission to enter is trespassing. If they have permission then it is okay. Couriers have implied access.
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and what precisely about a closed door to the interior of a private residence is implied permission?

calling a plumber or an electrician gives implied permission to enter a private residence if it's required for the completion of their task (which it often is) this is not the case for couriers, hence the existence of the letterbox and by extension the "sorry we missed you" note.
 
Street said:
I was burgled while asleep upstairs in my house. My door was closed and locked from the outside but not dead bolted and the insurance tried to get out of paying me even though there was forced entry. Luckily in the terms and conditions, which the woman went through word for word with me, it didn't specify that the doors had to be dead bolted and they had to pay out. She said I was lucky and my policy was updated after that by the insurance company.
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But that is just insurers doing what they do best, trying to put you off making a claim.
I doubt had it went to a court they would have been able to refuse to pay out in your case.
I thought the insurer had to prove negligence on the part of the claimant in order to refuse to pay out. Being upstairs showering, for example, is hardly negligent, at least in my non legally trained opinion.
 
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adolf hamster said:
and what precisely about a closed door to the interior of a private residence is implied permission?

calling a plumber or an electrician gives implied permission to enter a private residence if it's required for the completion of their task (which it often is) this is not the case for couriers, hence the existence of the letterbox and by extension the "sorry we missed you" note.
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You're going to have to back that up with case law in that it doesn't extend to opening the front door and placing a parcel inside.

It seems to me a reasonable use of the right of access in order to perform the service you have requested. You will find couriers might leave stuff in an unlocked shed or out of view areas. They are performing their service as best they can.

Letterboxes exist because front doors are locked. Notes are left because they don't have a way of safely delivering.
 
Thekwango said:
But that ms just insurers doing what they do best, trying to put you off making a claim.
I doubt had it went to a court they would have been able to refuse to pay out in your case.
I thought the insurer had to prove negligence on the part of the claimant in order to refuse to pay out. Being upstairs showering, for example, is hardly negligent, at least in my non legally trained opinion.
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You'll find nearly all insurance policies will have requirements as to what type of locks are required. This is top stop people using locks which can be picked by a 5 year old.
 
muon said:
Couriers have implied access.
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Into a private residence? Onto private land, yes, but surely not to just freely enter someone's home? Can you cite/link something to confirm this?

I'm genuinely curious as my own understanding would be that you are giving implied access to your land upto a front or back door but not your actual home.
 
Thekwango said:
Into a private residence? Onto private land, yes, but surely not to just freely enter someone's home? Can you cite/link something to confirm this?

I'm genuinely curious as my own understanding would be that you are giving implied access to your land upto a front or back door but not your actual home.
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There isn't a strict definition. My understanding is that it exists under common law. Think about how difficult it would be to provide an exact threshold of where implied access ends. As already determined in this thread many people would prefer a parcel to be delivered if possible through the door. So a courier could argue that it is a reasonable expectation that they have permission to do that.
 
muon said:
You're going to have to back that up with case law in that it doesn't extend to opening the front door and placing a parcel inside.

Letterboxes exist because front doors are locked. Notes are left because they don't have a way of safely delivering.
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I just need to back it up with standard industry practice, which by the existence of the "sorry we missed you" notes, and the generally accepted methods of leaving outside the premises or with a neighbour, which are standard practice for the majority of the industry. indicates that the industry itself does not consider entering a private residence as an acceptable extension of implied permission.

or are you going to deny that this practice is not standardised by industry not only in the uk but also with eu countries as well?

implied access to exterior grounds only exists due to the fact that it makes it physically impossible for the courier to complete their task without accessing said grounds.
 
Hermes delivery drivers have no obligation to follow standard practices of other couriers or what you have labelled standard industry practice (I doubt there is any standardisation). They likely have to follow Hermes set guidelines, but that isn't the same as trespass.
 
muon said:
You'll find nearly all insurance policies will have requirements as to what type of locks are required. This is top stop people using locks which can be picked by a 5 year old.
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Yea I get that. But they couldn't, surely, refuse to pay out if you're upstairs having a dump and someone walks in your front door and swipes your laptop?

They might try and put you off with their t's&c's but, at a guess, if you were to peruse your claim and had to go to court they'd have a hard time not paying out?
 
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